Penny drops: conspiracy theorist starts thinking critically

[Retro]

Normally, when someone falls prey to conspiracy theories and the spell of cult leaders, it's well nigh on impossible to snap them out of it even though it's so bloody obvious. Here is the story of one conspiracy theorist who did finally snap out of it - all credit to him - when he noticed certain conspiracies were just becoming too implausible. He's since tried to snap his conspiracy theorist friends out of it too, but met with 100% failure and even lost some of them as friends. That's how far down the rabbit hole this goes.

Brent Lee struggles to explain why he used to believe that a cabal of evil satanic paedophiles was working to establish a new world order. He pauses, looks sheepish, and says: “I cringe at all this now.”

For 15 years, Lee collected signs that so-called Illuminati overlords were controlling global events. He convinced himself that secret societies were running politics, banks, religious institutions and the entertainment industry, and that most terrorist attacks were actually government-organised ritual sacrifices.

He was also inclined to believe in UFOs, and that Stanley Kubrick staged and directed the filming of the moon landing. He saw satanic symbols in the London 2012 Olympics opening ceremony and spent most of his time discussing these theories with an online community of fellow believers. But in 2018 something shifted, and he began to find the new wave of conspiracy theories increasingly implausible. “I was sick of it. I felt, I can’t deal with hearing this any more because it’s no longer what I believe, so I just logged off the internet,” he says.

Now Lee is trying to help other conspiracy theorists to question their worldview. He will address a conference in Poland on disinformation in October, and has launched a podcast unpicking why he held these beliefs so fervently and why he was so deluded.

Escape from the rabbit hole: the conspiracy theorist who abandoned his dangerous beliefs

For 15 years, Brent Lee spent hours each day consuming ‘truther’ content online. Then he logged off. Can he convince his former friends to question their worldview?

www.theguardian.com

 

[Crims]

As a INFP I get weird with this, its the same though echoed and amplified in general. Good for him in his progress too

 

[Geffers]

Just did a long rely to this but firefox failed and I lost it.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Geffers

 

[Retro]

I'd like to know what you have to say, so perhaps an abridged version?

 

[Geffers]

One person's conspiracy theory is another person's truth. Over the past 4 or so years the enthusiasm to cancel or deplatform people with alternative opinions has fuelled the growth of conspiracy theories.

I do not believe the Earth is flat, I believe the US landed on the Moon in 1969, I do not believe 9/11 was an inside job, I don't believe the Olympic sank instead of the Titanic, however I do not agree that persons expressing alternative views should be cancelled from society.

The problem is nowadays few trust Government, and authority's handling of the covid affair increased peoples' suspicion giving rise to conspiracies. Over the last 3 years doctors, scientists, epidemiologist and other experts in their field were cancelled because they expressed concern over the vaccines...Twitter, Facebook and others with no medical expertise deplatformed doctors. Doesn't matter what the view on covid, how can one cancel experts in their field (they may be a minority but experts nevertheless) without encouraging conspiracy theories?

David Bellamy was a regular face on TV, considered an expert in his field until his opinion differed on climate change, then effectively cancelled.

Pharma makes money out of sick people, not healthy people, the arms industry makes money out of war or the threat of war, certainly not peace. Pharma made a fortune out of covid, arms industry making a fortune out of Ukraine., question either of these two and voice will be shut down.

Many think Governments act in our interest, in 1942 RMS Queen Mary accidentally rammed HMS Curaçao resulting in over 200 British lives being lost, the Queen Mary was under wartime orders not to stop for survivors. This was not made public until after the end of the war as the Government thought not in public interest to be given bad news. so.

HMS Curacoa (D41) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Transparency can eliminate the main cause of conspiracies, cancelling opinions adds to the creation.

Just my opinion.

Geffers

 

[Retro]

Geffers, it's a classic case of who watches the watchers, isn't it? However, it's still possible to get to the truth by just applying some critical thinking.

And as far as cancelling people or organisations go, whether it's good or bad, depends on who's being cancelled, in my opinion. If it's some 9/11 "truther" spreading lies about it and especially if it's gaining traction, then yeah, cancel them. However, if it's a doctor stating some inconvenient truths about covid, then of course he shouldn't be cancelled. I just wish the world would work so perfectly.

 

[Geffers]

Geffers, it's a classic case of who watches the watchers, isn't it? However, it's still possible to get to the truth by just applying some critical thinking.

And as far as cancelling people or organisations go, whether it's good or bad, depends on who's being cancelled, in my opinion. If it's some 9/11 "truther" spreading lies about it and especially if it's gaining traction, then yeah, cancel them. However, if it's a doctor stating some inconvenient truths about covid, then of course he shouldn't be cancelled. I just wish the world would work so perfectly.

Often money determines what is regarded as truth but as you say, apply some critical thinking.

The novel, 1984 is becoming so true nowadays with the adjustment of historical facts.

Geffers

 

[Geffers]

The recent attack on Israel has added fuel for the conspiracy theorists, the videos from the region have surpassed anything I have seen that comes from Ukraine. Of course this does not suggest that Ukraine/Russia is not happening, as some claim, but it is odd that compared to the current Israeli war videos from the Ukraine region are lacking.

I am not sure what this suggest, merely that it is strange.

Geffers

 

[Retro]

@Geffers This attack smacks of Russia being behind it. Three main reasons:

• Israel has one of the best intelligence agencies in the world and has agents all over the gaza strip and other places, yet they knew nothing about it? This is more than strange, a near impossibility in fact and smacks of a genuine conspiracy.
• The timing is suspicious. Ukraine support from the West is waning, especially now from the Republicans stopping aid going to them, Slovakia turning against Ukraine and pro Putin in their latest election and in general there's a sense that "Ukraine fatigue" is setting in, which plays right into Putin's hands. Why now have a disastrous war with Israel to divert attention and resources away from Ukraine?
• Putin is taking the piss calling for a ceasefire of this war, while he's in the middle of waging the one with Ukraine. Hypocrisy writ large.

 

[Geffers]

@Geffers This attack smacks of Russia being behind it. Three main reasons:

• Israel has one of the best intelligence agencies in the world and has agents all over the gaza strip and other places, yet they knew nothing about it? This is more than strange, a near impossibility in fact and smacks of a genuine conspiracy.
• The timing is suspicious. Ukraine support from the West is waning, especially now from the Republicans stopping aid going to them, Slovakia turning against Ukraine and pro Putin in their latest election and in general there's a sense that "Ukraine fatigue" is setting in, which plays right into Putin's hands. Why now have a disastrous war with Israel to divert attention and resources away from Ukraine?
• Putin is taking the piss calling for a ceasefire of this war, while he's in the middle of waging the one with Ukraine. Hypocrisy writ large.

Here is a very interesting video from someone who is excellent at quoting historical facts, 6 minutes only.

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Geffers

 

[Retro]

@Geffers Are you saying that this would justify Russia potentially fomenting the Hamas - Israel war to help its invasion in Ukraine? It doesn't.

So, the promise was broken, but the fall of the Soviet Union happened then too, looks like within months, which is a game changer, but the presenter doesn't say much about that. Why not cover such a critical point?

I'll bet that's the whole reason that those previously SU countries wanted to join, to protect against invasion from Russia now that they were independent, so why shouldn't they be allowed to join? Just look at what's happened to Ukraine which hasn't joined!

These so-called "security fears" that Russia cites regarding NATO are bogus, just like all their other claims, because the West has no intention of invading them and never has, everyone knows that. In fact, if I remember correctly, NATO exists to protect against potential Russian invasion.

So, has Russia been provoked? No, change of circumstances. I can't wait for Ukraine to win this bloody war and join NATO.

In fact, looking at the titles of his other videos, I wonder who's side this guy is on. I'll watch a few of them to understand his position better when I get round to it.

 

[Geffers]

@Geffers Are you saying that this would justify Russia potentially fomenting the Hamas - Israel war to help its invasion in Ukraine? It doesn't.

Had I meant to say that that is what I would have said. I merely posted a video outlining something many people are oblivious to.

Geffers

 

[Retro]

Had I meant to say that that is what I would have said. I merely posted a video outlining something many people are oblivious to.

Geffers

Well, posting a video like that with a supposedly "neutral" comment against my comment about Russia possibly being beind it really does imply that you do mean justifying Russia. You can see how my breakdown of that video really shows this.

Perhaps you could address my breakdown of that video? It really does look like subtle Russian propaganda the way he tells it, selectively leaving out important information, which is very suspicious for someone who purports to accurately portray the facts of the matter in detail. Do you think I'm wrong? If so, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this rather than just stating it.

I've since read the article below that shows Russia is indeed very likely to be behind the Hamas-Israel war. Very good distraction for them isn't it? Also significantly weakens the West as they now have to fight two wars. Hmmm...

Opinion: Zelensky’s inescapable new reality

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky faces a difficult balancing act between showing support for Israel and maintaining resources for Ukraine, writes Frida Ghitis.

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[Geffers]

There is so much propaganda used in conflicts nowadays, good guys against bad guys.

Back in 2003 UK and US invaded sovereign nation Iraq under the excuse to rid the World of Weapons of Mass Destruction. A noble cause, no UN support so deemed illegal by many. So were we the good guys or, as deemed illegal were we actually the bad guys? Legality still disputed by many to this day.

Many of the conflicts are merely to unseat the current leader and install someone apparently friendly to Western interests, the needs of the people are seldom to real reason, the Iraq war, apart from WMDs the reason cited was often because Saddam Hussein was a monster and it was to release the population from tyrannical rule, is the World a safer place after ridding the planet of WMDs that did not exist?

In fact many say that Saddam Hussein was a balance to Iran's Ayatollahs, that is not the case now as Iran is certainly a force to be reckoned with despite the sanctions.

As I get older my trust in politicians gets less and less, they do not appear to serve and protect the electorate of their home Country, always seem to be taking advice from UN, WHO, WEF and ignoring the citizens.

US back in 1987 accidentally shot down an Iranian passenger jet killing over 250, their Navy mistook it for a military fighter. Last year after the Afghan withdrawal debacle and the tragic bomb one of Joe Biden's drones accidentally killed a family which included 7 children from the one family. Admitted by US and I think compensation paid.

Most of the people who are gung ho about war and want to smash Russia, China, Hamas, etc are not the ones who will be doing any actual fighting, the dying and maiming is reserved for 'others'.

As for your mention about the presenter's comments appearing to be pro Russia, to the best of my knowledge he has not posted anything about the war previously so certainly no obvious bias.

Geffers