We Need to Rethink Exercise – The Workout Paradox

[Retro]

This latest Kurzgesagt video explains why exercising to lose weight doesn't work. Anyone who's tried it understands the futility of exercise, given how the body adapts to it to sabotage that crucial fat loss. Note that exercise is still worth doing however, to maintain overall health and avoid disease, especially in later life.

In a follow-up video, yet to be released, they'll explain the other half of the picture, diet, and hopefully give some sort of resolution to that problem. I'll post that too.

Note that there's already a solution of sorts to this fat loss problem, as explained below. It's hardly perfect and is a drug that you can never come off* without the weight rebounding and then some, but it does work and is better than remaining fat for the rest of your life.

All about amazing weight loss drug semaglutide

This amazing drug really works at helping people to lose significant amounts of weight. Note that it comes under three different brand names, Wegovy, Ozempic and Rybelsus, only the first two of which are covered in Sabine's video, but it's all the same stuff with all the same effects. It comes...

nerdzone.uk

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

And let's not forget the role of genetics in keeping that fat off:

The real reason why thin people are not fat: genetic advantage

This one's so important and central to people struggles with weight gain that I'm pinning this thread. Annoying how some people can just stuff their faces with all the tasty, unhealthy junk food that we love and crave, yet never get fat, isn't it?* Yet, for so many people, doing all the diet...

nerdzone.uk

*Fabulous situation for its manufacturer, Novo Nordisk, who is making lots of money out of it.

 

[Retro]

@Mars @Tiffany this will interest you.

 

[live627]

On a very surface level this post appears to encourage couch potato popping pills. Probably not the intent. That drug should never be taken outside of its originally narrow intended scope because it paralyses the stomach, which wreaks havoc on mental health.

“Stop correlating exercise with weight loss. You need to exercise as part of regular maintenance for your body.”—a comment on that video

Excercise might only be 10% of the fat loss game. Yep, it's a game, alright!

 

[Mars]

On a very surface level this post appears to encourage couch potato popping pills. Probably not the intent. That drug should never be taken outside of its originally narrow intended scope because it paralyses the stomach, which wreaks havoc on mental health.

“Stop correlating exercise with weight loss. You need to exercise as part of regular maintenance for your body.”—a comment on that video

Excercise might only be 10% of the fat loss game. Yep, it's a game, alright!

yeah , it sounds like they are saying 'forget exercise'. A dangerous and totally wrong message indeed.
Maybe they didn't mean it, as live627 put it "Probably not the intent", nevertheless that is how it comes across.

Naturally, overweight people cannot-and should not(!)- rush to the gym, start lifting weights like crazy; they wouldn't be able to do it anyway, would give them a heart attack.
The message should have been this: don't you like to go to the gym? Never mind. What's important is Movement, move your body.
And for that you do not need a gym. Every 1/2 hour or so get off your chair walk a bit. If you have access to stairs, either at home or in your office building, go up and down them during your break, go once, twice, whatever you can initially manage, it is a first class vascular exercise, recommended by cardiologists.

Maybe that video meant well, but all I heard was don't bother with exercise; they kept harping on why the gym is of no value, rather then giving some much needed doable helpful solutions.
All the time harking back to our hunter-gatherer ancestors, b o r i n g, heard that a million times before, nothing new there. With childish cartoons to boot. How about giving some viable helpful solutions instead?

No one can argue against the fact that in order to lose weight you have to get yourself into a caloric deficit, this is the most important and indisputable fact.
How you achieve this caloric deficit is of secondary relevance, as long as you end up with a deficit.
The new weight loss drugs are just that: New. Years will tell the after effects. They should be used as a tool, a temporary aid, not as a long time crutch.

 

[Retro]

@live627 and especially @Mars I think you're missing the point of this video, which I did explain in my post, but I'll repeat it here, for clarity.

It explains how doing lots of exercise doesn't lead to weight loss, which is generally true and it explains the science behind why that is. There's a part two coming that they've not made yet, about diet. I'll bet you that there they'll explain how the two together, the boring old diet and exercise regime that no one likes to do, is gonna be what takes the weight off. They also did explain the health benefits of exercising. Remember how they explained the required calorie defecit in this video too, so they're not spreading disinformation. Believe me, I wouldn't post such a video.

And the cutesy cartoons, are the presentation style of this channel. All their videos are like this and I like them very much. They're simply presenting science in an interesting and engaging way, with lots of humour on top, that I especially like.

 

[Mars]

@live627 and especially @Mars I think you're missing the point of this video, which I did explain in my post, but I'll repeat it here, for clarity.

It explains how doing lots of exercise doesn't lead to weight loss, which is generally true and it explains the science behind why that is. There's a part two coming that they've not made yet, about diet. I'll bet you that there they'll explain how the two together, the boring old diet and exercise regime that no one likes to do, is gonna be what takes the weight off. They also did explain the health benefits of exercising. Remember how they explained the required calorie defecit in this video too, so they're not spreading disinformation. Believe me, I wouldn't post such a video.

And the cutesy cartoons, are the presentation style of this channel. All their videos are like this and I like them very much. They're simply presenting science in an interesting and engaging way, with lots of humour on top, that I especially like.

No, I don't think either live627 or myself misunderstood anything. You put it across as if we missed the point of this video?

Please note that we have both agreed that maybe they meant well, and we have also both agreed that the message was somewhat confusing.

Oh yes, they did mention the caloric deficit, of course they would mention it; it is a scientific fact they cannot deny.
They have also given a nod to general exercise; gee thanks.

Nevertheless, the overall message was 'don't bother with exercise'. At least that is how it came across to us. I mean , just look at the title: "The Workout Paradox". Paradox? Really? Paradox is a very very strong word.

The next video will probably reveal to us again something we don't know.... you said it yourself: "I'll bet you that there they'll explain how the two together, the boring old diet and exercise regime that no one likes to do, is gonna be what takes the weight off".

​

​

 

[Crims]

In all honesty I hate this Youtuber particularly, and the bogus claims I always see on this channel are largely bait and nothing else. The point that a lot of diet depends on not exercising is highly contestable, because of metabolism - the ultimate decider of whether exercise is necessary. I'm not usually one to throw in on diet and health, though in this case he's not worth arguing over + exercise and health has a high amount of cherry picked fake science. I remember learning this when Tim Ferris gained popularity in 2010.

 

[Tiffany]

Losing or maintaining weight is complex and there's no right or wrong way to do it. Losing weight successfully has so many factors involved to consider. For example, people with thyroid issues will have a difficult time losing weight and would need a customized plan designed for them to have success, because more than likely they are also on medications to control their thyroid issues. Other people that might have certain conditions may or may not lose weight easily and sometimes exercise may be key to their weight loss, but it's the kind of exercise that drives if they will be successful or not. Over exercising has issues with cortisol. If you are putting too much strain on your body to lose weight, your cortisol levels may rise, hence interfering with your chances of losing more inches of your waist because cortisol is well known for creating thicker waist lines.

Over exercising can also put strain on your knees and other joints and it's advised to just walk off those pounds (or move your upper body more) until you get to a certain weight where you can add a little aerobic exercise without harming your joints.

I don't particularly like when people advocate to not exercise (above video), however, exercise doesn't have to be all about going to the gym, as there's so much you can do at home in your own living room. Exercise is essential to get oxygen and other nutrients to move within your body. Your brain and heart need the stimulation, but again, it doesn't have to be hardcore and there's so much you can do from a seated position, as well.

The medications for weight loss concern me because of the side effects. Most people want their weight loss to happen fast, but what are those med's really doing for you? Is it worth it to have permanent eye damage to lose that extra 20 pounds? I realize not everyone experiences side effects too, just saying that side effects can be an issue.

Will power to lose weight is also a term that is not kind to people that need to lose weight. Simply removing some foods out of your diet through time, eating one less cookie everyday, can make progress and be a positive result on the scale.

Always remember to be kind to yourself in everything you do.

 

[Retro]

No, I don't think either live627 or myself misunderstood anything. You put it across as if we missed the point of this video?

Please note that we have both agreed that maybe they meant well, and we have also both agreed that the message was somewhat confusing.

Oh yes, they did mention the caloric deficit, of course they would mention it; it is a scientific fact they cannot deny.
They have also given a nod to general exercise; gee thanks.

Nevertheless, the overall message was 'don't bother with exercise'. At least that is how it came across to us. I mean , just look at the title: "The Workout Paradox". Paradox? Really? Paradox is a very very strong word.

The next video will probably reveal to us again something we don't know.... you said it yourself: "I'll bet you that there they'll explain how the two together, the boring old diet and exercise regime that no one likes to do, is gonna be what takes the weight off".

Yes, I think you did, as did Tiffany, below. No, the overall message isn't to not bother with exercise, but that it's not especially effective for weight loss on its own, because the body fights it tooth and nail, which is very true.

You can't dismiss the points I've made about calorie defecit and general exercise in defence of the video either and it certainly is a paradox at first glance, since one would think that burning lots of calories through exercise should result in that elusive weight loss when it actually doesn't. They then explain what's really going on with the body sabotaging one's efforts.

In all honesty I hate this Youtuber particularly, and the bogus claims I always see on this channel are largely bait and nothing else.

I'm surprised you say that as I find their videos informative, accurate and entertaining. Do you have any examples?

Losing or maintaining weight is complex and there's no right or wrong way to do it. Losing weight successfully has so many factors involved to consider. For example, people with thyroid issues will have a difficult time losing weight and would need a customized plan designed for them to have success, because more than likely they are also on medications to control their thyroid issues. Other people that might have certain conditions may or may not lose weight easily and sometimes exercise may be key to their weight loss, but it's the kind of exercise that drives if they will be successful or not. Over exercising has issues with cortisol. If you are putting too much strain on your body to lose weight, your cortisol

Great post and I agree with most of it, but this first paragraph, especially. The point you make here is why I linked to my thread about genetic advantage which wasn't mentioned in the video.

I don't particularly like when people advocate to not exercise (above video)

Again, like I said to Mars, they're not advocating it, as they did say it has overall health benefits, but just trying to use it for weight loss is usually ineffective for the reasons they've described.

This issue is complex alright and science still doesn't have the definitive answer to it, so Kurzgesagt won't have it either, and I think you'll hear them say that in the next video. I hope so anyway, lol.

My personal feeling on this is that the body has a set weight point that it tries to maintain, which is why losing that weight is so damned hard. If only it could be altered to be set at the right weight, analogous to how a thermostat for room temperature is set, then a lot of these issues would go away and people could maintain their weight without effort. Again, why are thin people not fat is the key question, as discussed in my other thread that I've linked to. That's the real question. Note that it's not just my personal feeling either, as researches used to think there is a set point, then it fell out of favour, but then came back into favour and I believe it still is. The thyroid certainly seems to be a central player in the body's weight regulation system.

And weight gain tends to be easy, since we're generally programmed to store energy for the hard times during starvation, which is how humans evolved aeons ago, but then the body doesn't want to let it go in preparation for the hard times, which in our modern lives usually don't come unless one suffers severe hardship like in a third world country, or deprivation through poverty or abuse in first world countries.

The effect of general pollution in our food and environment can also play havoc with our weight regulation and is an active area of research. So yeah, it's highly complex, which science has no definitive answer right now to cover all scenarios.

 

[Mars]

Yes, I think you did, as did Tiffany, below. No, the overall message isn't to not bother with exercise, but that it's not especially effective for weight loss on its own, because the body fights it tooth and nail, which is very true.

I don't know why you argue with me and with anyone that does not agree 100% with your views.
Kindly read my first reply again, where I did mention that vigorous exercise is certainly not recommended, I said easy does it, walk a bit every now and then, climb stairs (excellent cardio), the gym is not necessary for that....

I still got the ovewrall impression from that video, and so apparently did others, that exercise ain't gonna help.
Yes, there was the obligatory nod for the need for caloric deficit and the overall benefit of exercise....Now that is new indeed, we didn't know that.
They couch it all in a lot of waffle about our hunter ancestors and fear of the sabre tooth tiger......heard it all before.

 

[Astro What]

Well, when you have folks like Richard Simmons kicking off at 76 and then folks like Ozzy Osbourne, Keith Richards and Steven Tyler still kicking around, you have to wonder.

 

[Crims]

I still got the ovewrall impression from that video, and so apparently did others, that exercise ain't gonna help.
Yes, there was the obligatory nod for the need for caloric deficit and the overall benefit of exercise....Now that is new indeed, we didn't know that.
They couch it all in a lot of waffle about our hunter ancestors and fear of the sabre tooth tiger......heard it all before.

This is why I brought up Tim Ferris - 4 Hour Body was released years ago in a concise and easy to understand way. It's very easy to ignore the ambigous when you've done research prior. The video is full of selective truths until it's time for the point of the video (which it doesn't reach). Unless you're familiar with this style of Youtuber it's difficult to even understand where they go.
@Retro - I'll definitely do a writeup on him later.

 

[Mars]

This is why I brought up Tim Ferris - 4 Hour Body was released years ago in a concise and easy to understand way. It's very easy to ignore the ambigous when you've done research prior. The video is full of selective truths until it's time for the point of the video (which it doesn't reach). Unless you're familiar with this style of Youtuber it's difficult to even understand where they go.
@Retro - I'll definitely do a writeup on him later.

I am not familiar with Tim Ferriss-4 hour Body. Are you saying it is good or are you saying it is bollocks?

 

[Crims]

I am not familiar with Tim Ferriss-4 hour Body. Are you saying it is good or are you saying it is bollocks?

It's the most popular one at the time, I don't remember who exactly popularised the rethink exercise trend in 2010, though I've got a copy still on my bookshelf so it's probably not bollocks.
@Retro - Following up with Youtuber commentary:
-Frequently had claims such as 'we don't need to worry about global warming' with selective science.
-Never gives stats and provides a devils advocate, biased by design
-Doesn't choose the people angle - always numerical and favours nontruth
-I notice he doesn't even consider the post acceptance view. Just outright lies instead.
-Washes over the main issues of the past decade from civil matter, to individual need -- and even the optimistic approach (like Mars in this case).
All of which are something I dislike, even if it's admirable to write about these topics and be open.

 

[Retro]

@Retro - Following up with Youtuber commentary:
-Frequently had claims such as 'we don't need to worry about global warming' with selective science.
-Never gives stats and provides a devils advocate, biased by design
-Doesn't choose the people angle - always numerical and favours nontruth
-I notice he doesn't even consider the post acceptance view. Just outright lies instead.
-Washes over the main issues of the past decade from civil matter, to individual need -- and even the optimistic approach (like Mars in this case).
All of which are something I dislike, even if it's admirable to write about these topics and be open.

Do you have any examples of this, ie article or video links? Just a couple would do.

I've seen quite a few of these videos and they're all pretty spot on, so what you say is the total opposite, hence that would take some evidence. Even if so, if a Kurzgesagt video is accurate, then it doesn't make any difference, does it? It would just mean that he spouts rubbish on one platform, but proper info on another. I find it hard to believe that the same person would differ so markedly.

 

[Retro]

I don't know why you argue with me and with anyone that does not agree 100% with your views.
Kindly read my first reply again, where I did mention that vigorous exercise is certainly not recommended, I said easy does it, walk a bit every now and then, climb stairs (excellent cardio), the gym is not necessary for that....

I disagree with you on the facts, not opinion, which you do appear to have misunderstood from the video.

The bold bit: I never said that you said it's not recommended and hence is a strawman argument. However, you are saying that the video says it's not recommended, when that's simply untrue:

yeah , it sounds like they are saying 'forget exercise'. A dangerous and totally wrong message indeed.

But it doesn't. Again, the whole video is about why exercise is ineffective for weight loss and, again, they did state that the overall health benefits of it. What's wrong with that?

I still got the ovewrall impression from that video, and so apparently did others, that exercise ain't gonna help.
Yes, there was the obligatory nod for the need for caloric deficit and the overall benefit of exercise....Now that is new indeed, we didn't know that.
They couch it all in a lot of waffle about our hunter ancestors and fear of the sabre tooth tiger......heard it all before.

It ain't gonna help for weight loss on its own, no.

There's welcome humour in it, but no waffle that I can see. The hunter gatherer explanation is absolutely relevant, because those are the conditions in which the human body evolved, hence helps to explain why exercise has the effect it does on us and why it doesn't help with weight loss. Humans had no technology then and basically lived a subsistance lifestyle, like the animals, which lead to this.

And again, wait for the second video - it's not out yet, I just checked. I'll bet you they explain how putting diet and exercise together is what achieves weight loss, at least some, anyway. Believe me, if they start getting their facts wrong, I'll be pointing that out, too.