Air India Flight AI171 crashes seconds after takeoff

[Retro]

This awful crash of Air India flight AI171 happened today with 242 people on board and only one survivor. It took off from Ahmedabad, western India.

Looking at the footage, it looks like it must have lost complete engine power just after it took off, so gained barely any height before it began to sink. The why of this we'll know in time.

Footage of the whole flight starts at 14 seconds. Looking at the footage of the destruction, I wonder how it managed to destroy buildings so far apart. When these things go up, it's like a bomb has gone off.

So many thousands of people, directly and indirectly have been affected by this crash.

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Latest updates:

Air India crash latest: At least 200 killed in Air India plane crash as one British passenger reportedly survives

The plane carrying 242 people, including 169 Indian nationals and 53 Britons, hit a residential area, with some on the ground also feared dead.

www.bbc.co.uk

Unfortunately, this accident is bad enough to make Air Crash Investigation.

Mayday - Alarm im Cockpit (TV Series 2003– ) ⭐ 8.8 | Documentary, Crime, History

45m | TV-14

www.imdb.com

 

[AllThingsTech]

Wow this is really sad This must be particularly traumatic for loved ones of the victims, and not least because of the delays in the release of the bodies, resulting from long queues with families ready to hand over DNA samples.

Plane crashes with modern planes typically have all passengers as survivors, or occasionally no survivors if the accident was severe; however, rarely do you get one survivor! How lucky!

A lady 10 minutes late for that flight sooek to the news - imagine the stress of missing the flight, and it’s a blessing in disguise that she missed said flight!

 

[Hitcore]

Imagine being that sole survivor. Or that lady who was 10 minutes late. Those are some of the surrealest things people can experience.

Plane crashes have huge impact, though it must be said that statistically flying is a lot safer than driving. But if a plane goes down, the event is a lot bigger and more dramatic.

 

[Retro]

Oh yeah, I'll bet those two have kissed the ground with relief. Imagine the rising sense of panic by the pilots as the plane continued to inexorably sink towards the ground while they struggled with the controls. The passengers too of course, depending on their awareness level of what was going on.

Thing is, we only hear about the major accidents on the news, like this one - and this one is about as major as it gets, which gives people the impression that if anything goes wrong in a plane, then you're doomed, but not so, very far from it, actually. Ones like this, are a really tiny fraction of all the thousands of journeys made in a year, way less than 1%, maybe 0.01% or something like that.

It turns out that there are lots of accidents and incidences in a year, some of which could be serious, but all the safety systems, staff training and protocols kick in to keep everyone safe, even if the plane is damaged. To see about those, you have to look at aviation websites and magazines. There's at least one monthly mag which lists all the incidences in the previous month, as they're all officially recorded.

 

[Retro]

Continuing the flight safety discussion, while I would go up in one of those big jets no problem, even after this, I wouldn't do so in a small single or twin engine propeller plane as there are much fewer safeties there. Even then however, some of the bigger twin engine props have great safety records, so maybe, but I'd still be reluctant. They tend to do short hops, so a car taxi might be possible. One has to be smart about these things.

 

[Retro]

The thoughts of this retired pilot are worth hearing. He reckons that the problem actually happened just seconds before take off, or V1, so the pilots had the choice of either crashing at the end of the runway, or getting into the air and seeing if there was some way to manage the situatuon. Looks like the ram air turbine (RAT) was deployed, which only happens when there's total loss of electrical power. Disastrous during this phase of flight.

Given this, it's plausible that the aircraft actually lost power just before V1, forcing a take off. At that point, it's got the speed and momentum to get off the ground, but without engine power it will then slow down, hence lose lift and sink, just as the world saw. Notice how the plane was flared just before the crash. The pilots would do this to try and increase lift to try and lesson the impact. What a horrible situation they and the passengers all faced. RIP.

We will know what happened for sure eventually and this explanation might be wrong. We just gotta wait.

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[AllThingsTech]

The thoughts of this retired pilot are worth hearing. He reckons that the problem actually happened just seconds before take off, or V1, so the pilots had the choice of either crashing at the end of the runway, or getting into the air and seeing if there was some way to manage the situatuon. Looks like the ram air turbine (RAT) was deployed, which only happens when there's total loss of electrical power. Disastrous during this phase of flight.

Given this, it's plausible that the aircraft actually lost power just before V1, forcing a take off. At that point, it's got the speed and momentum to get off the ground, but without engine power it will then slow down, hence lose lift and sink, just as the world saw. Notice how the plane was flared just before the crash. The pilots would do this to try and increase lift to try and lesson the impact. What a horrible situation they and the passengers all faced. RIP.

We will know what happened for sure eventually and this explanation might be wrong. We just gotta wait.

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Wasn’t it negligent to take off under this scenario instead of crashing end of runway?

 

[Retro]

No, that's what V1 is, the point of no return, as I've explained.

 

[AllThingsTech]

No, that's what V1 is, the point of no return, as I've explained.

Sorry post edited! It was clear the plane wouldn’t last long in the air!

Also find it crazy that you can’t just break at that point Thanks for sharing this!

 

[Retro]

I guess if the runway was long enough it might be possible, but the length might need to double, perhaps. Certainly, the brakes and undercarriage would be damaged if they did an emergency stop at take off speed, even with engine reversers deployed. Small price to pay for safety in my opinion though. I can only think that they don't do it as it doesn't satisfy the cost-benefit equation and would take a lot more physical real estate to do.

Little planes like one or two propeller types with short take offs could easily stop at V1 as there's plenty of runway.

 

[AllThingsTech]

It’s clear that the benefits of breaking outweigh the costs when ~250 lives are saved!

Then again, when I’m in the car of a rough driver and they break abruptly, we often get hurt, and imagine a plane breaking at take-off speed - doesn’t sound safe, to say the least!

 

[AllThingsTech]

OMG you guys realise the plane crashed into a building used as accommodation for doctors at a medical college and civil hospital? So, not only have we lost those involved in the plane crash, but also doctors who have so much good to offer

Air India plane crash death toll rises to 270

Dr Dhaval Gameti said 270 bodies have been recovered from the site of Thursday's plane crash in Ahmedabad.

www.bbc.co.uk

Death toll has risen to 270

 

[Retro]

A second Air India plane almost crashed just 38 hours after the first incident. AI's safety record isn't too great, as you can see in the second link, below. This is a clue to why these incidents happen and hence why I wouldn't fly with them. I've known for years that they're like this, too.

On 12 June, just 38 hours after the deadly Air India flight 171 crashed in Ahmedabad, killing over 260 people, another flight from the same airline from Delhi to Vienna faced a serious safety scare.

During takeoff, the Boeing 777 flight AI187 reportedly lost about 900ft in altitude and triggered multiple warnings, including a “stall alert” and “don’t sink” Ground Proximity Warning System (GPWS), a report in The Times of India claimed.

Both the “stall” and “don’t sink” warnings signal a dangerous loss of lift and altitude shortly after takeoff – requiring immediate corrective action to avoid a crash.

Although the pilots managed to stabilise the aircraft and complete the flight to Vienna, both have reportedly since been grounded pending an investigation by India’s aviation regulator.

Pilots grounded after another Air India flight struggles during takeoff hours after Ahmedabad crash

Pilots’ post-flight report failed to mention critical stall and ‘don’t sink’ warnings, official says

uk.yahoo.com

Air India Safety Rating | Airline Ratings

Safety: 4/7. View the latest safety ratings for Air India on AirlineRatings.com

www.airlineratings.com

 

[Mars]

A second Air India plane almost crashed just 38 hours after the first incident. AI's safety record isn't too great, as you can see in the second link, below. This is a clue to why these incidents happen and hence why I wouldn't fly with them. I've known for years that they're like this, too.

Frightening stuff. Also, as we see from the second link, passenger rating 3.9, and yet ppl continue to fly with them

 

[AllThingsTech]

A second Air India plane almost crashed just 38 hours after the first incident. AI's safety record isn't too great, as you can see in the second link, below. This is a clue to why these incidents happen and hence why I wouldn't fly with them. I've known for years that they're like this, too.

Pilots grounded after another Air India flight struggles during takeoff hours after Ahmedabad crash

Pilots’ post-flight report failed to mention critical stall and ‘don’t sink’ warnings, official says

uk.yahoo.com

I wanna pre-emptively apologise for a remark that may come across insensitive, but I just can’t resist. Gosh I thought of Artificial Intelligence when I read AI, but I suppose artificial intelligence safety record ain’t great either Again, apologies for a possibly insensitive comment but I just couldn’t help myself!

This pattern with the takeoff issues is crazy and imo not only should the pilots be grounded, Air India should be banned from flying planes given its poor track record, pending an investigation and implementation of recommended safety measures!

 

[AllThingsTech]

Also I can’t imagine the survivor guilt the survivor must be feeling, not least given his brother was on the plane and sadly didn’t survive And the pressure the family placed on him to “Go find him!” Oh Lord!

This may be best in another topic and also an intense hypothetical scenario you’ve likely never been in, and possibly super personal so no worries if you feel uncomfortable to answer, but in a situation where you have the choice between saving yourself and a loved one, what would you choose?

 

[Retro]

Air India should be banned from flying planes given its poor track record, pending an investigation and implementation of recommended safety measures!

Yeah I think so too, but there's billions of dollars involved and the right people get paid off so it doesn't happen so people continue to die.

Too many variables to answer your saving question. What would you do?

 

[Mars]

This may be best in another topic and also an intense hypothetical scenario you’ve likely never been in, and possibly super personal so no worries if you feel uncomfortable to answer, but in a situation where you have the choice between saving yourself and a loved one, what would you choose?

I agree with Retro: Too many variables to answer your saving question. What would you do?

 

[AllThingsTech]

Too many variables to answer your saving question. What would you do?

I agree with Retro: Too many variables to answer your saving question. What would you do?

Hmm… putting me right back on the spot, eh? Well, I’d have to save myself before I can save others In this scenario I wouldn’t have time to think and a few seconds could make the difference between life and death for me, literally guaranteeing my loved one wouldn’t survive if they otherwise wouldn’t have without my help!

Of course if he was right next to me, I’d aggressively pull him with me, otherwise I’d assume the best chance of survival would be us both rushing to the nearest emergency exit.

 

[Retro]

Interesting scenario to your own question. Again though, I don't feel I can give a single answer due to all those variables, so I'm not gonna try.

 

[Retro]

Did you know that in the airline industry, they literally have a cost-benefit they do that they keep quiet about? In other words, they look at the profits they make by taking certain safety shortcuts, the likelihood of a bad accident and the payouts that might be required and cynically factor that as a "cost of doing business". If the cost is too high, then they're more likely to do things properly. It's all about profit, nothing else, the millions of people they transport are just the pawns needed to make that profit, nothing more than cattle.

I believe this happens in all the safety critical industries like cars, construction of all kinds, hospitals / healthcare, food production etc.

 

[AllThingsTech]

I'm talking about power and corruption, all enabled with billions of dollars that will prevent shutting down an airline that clearly doesn't put safety first and allows people to die.

Did you know that in the airline industry, they literally have a cost-benefit they do that they keep quiet about? In other words, they look at the profits they make by taking certain safety shortcuts, the likelihood of a bad accident and the payouts that might be required and cynically factor that as a "cost of doing business". If the cost is too high, then they're more likely to do things properly. It's all about profit, nothing else, the millions of people they transport are just the pawns needed to make that profit.

I believe this happens in all the safety critical industries like cars, construction of all kinds, hospitals / healthcare, food production etc.

I definitely get this as a software engineer - throughout my experience working in this industry, I know that if it takes too much time for a security vulnerability to be fixed, even one of high severity, new shiny features and bug fixes that are easily visible will be prioritised. I won’t offer up details of my workplace or any further technical details for obvious reasons governing confidentiality!

 

[Retro]

Software is a great example. Think of that faulty MCAS system in the two 737 Max planes that crashed, killing hundreds. That was a software and hardware glitch. Boeing miscalculated there, as it's cost them dear.

 

[AllThingsTech]

That’s the problem, and as you used to tell me, sometimes the damage is done and an apology only goes so far. And where lost lives are concerned, an apology goes nowhere and you can’t revive a loved one back, as much as we’d all love to! The trust is damaged - Air India, never again!

They may be saving costs in the short-term but in the long term it costs them heavily in terms of legal fees, compensation and business loss due to damage in reputation!

 

[Retro]

Yes indeed, it can bring a company down and deservedly so. The instigators should go to prison too, but alas that doesn't usually happen.