Arizona Senate votes to repeal 1864 abortion ban

Retro

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Finally some common sense prevails! What's wrong with those Republicans that they love to foist their restrictive medieval religious beliefs on women regarding their bodies?

Arizona's Senate has voted to repeal a 1864 law banning abortion, the last major push in the Democrat-led effort to erase the law from state books.

Two Republicans joined Senate Democrats to support the repeal bill, which narrowly passed the House last week.

Governor Katie Hobbs, a Democrat, hailed the result and is due to formalise the removal of the law.

The pre-statehood law bars abortion from the moment of conception, with no exceptions for rape or incest.

It's that last sentence that was especially sickening. Even in the 1800s it was obvious that exceptions for rape and incest should be made. Also for the health of the mother that's not mentioned. Imagine if giving birth is going to kill her due to some medical condition, so, what, she's then gotta be forced to go through with it? It's nothing more than state murder! Absolutely insane not making these exceptions.

I hope Roe v Wade is eventually reinstated and I suspect it might be if Biden wins the election in November. Thing is, it's not up to him, but that crooked Republican Supreme Court that Trump corrupted so much.

 

Crims

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Arizona has been incredibly common in my news feed and very peculiar every time.
 

live627

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I was agnostic and completely neutral about this silly little red herring of an issue until it was suddenly a big thing.

1. Roe is a violation of the tenth amendment and should have never been a thing.
2. If you don't have the willpower to avoid the doninky-doink, don't be surprised to learn that you need to put in extra work to undo your moment of weakness. This will be a hard lesson for horny teens, but c'est la vie. Plan a road trip, sillies.
3. Arizona has beautiful scenery, even in the low deserts. Not just hot. Come visit. Try the great tex-mex food.
 

Retro

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Uh-oh! We have a pro lifer in our midst! 😮 But that's ok, all opinions are allowed here.

But seriously dude, that's a very narrow view you have there and is a grey area. It's very easy to get judgemental of others until you're in that situation yourself and then you see what it's really like.

What about the following scenarios:
  1. Woman or worse, underage girl is raped and becomes pregnant
  2. Woman or underage girl is raped by her brother, father, uncle etc, ie incest
  3. Woman or underage girl is unable to look after the baby properly due to circumstance and / or mental impairment, giving it a poor quality of life
  4. The woman or underage girl would be seriously injured or even die if she's forced to have the baby, due to a health issue
There's more scenarios I could think of, but these are all serious enough to go on.

Should women or girls in these scenarios be forced to have the baby in your opinion?

Finally, I do find it outrageous when men make huge judgements like these about what women can do with their bodies when they'll never go through this experience themselves on account of not being biologically able to. When women make these judgements, it's like turkeys voting for Christmas. I do wonder what they're smoking.
 

Crims

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As a voice of neutrality on this particular topic, the intra-politics of the US is still after quite a long time too chaotic to be taken seriously in a UK forum. Until law is passed on a technically larger scale the context gets murky and the politics is impossible to debate on these topics, because the easy counter as live said is to just drive somewhere else.
 

live627

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Very chaotic, indeed. Remember, it is a union of 50 states which is almost like 50 countries in one. The federal government can be compared to the EU: it dictates rules for all States to follow outlined in the Constitution. Understandable that it's hard to comprehend; high-profile world leaders have trouble.

That big post of a blah-blah-blah is a strawman. I'm not answering that gotcha question.

Did you know that interstate travel is free and unencumbered? No passport or any form of id required! Just jump in car and go. We even have a network of highways spanning the entire country to facilitate this quickly and easily.

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Retro

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That big post of a blah-blah-blah is a strawman. I'm not answering that gotcha question.
It's not a strawman argument, I've simply challenged you with some very important points which happen in real life to women, that show up the flaw in your anti-abortion statement. You said:

1. Roe is a violation of the tenth amendment and should have never been a thing.
2. If you don't have the willpower to avoid the doninky-doink, don't be surprised to learn that you need to put in extra work to undo your moment of weakness. This will be a hard lesson for horny teens, but c'est la vie. Plan a road trip, sillies.

This statement makes you anti-abortion, so it's reasonable to challenge you on it is all. It might seem "gotcha" to you, because I'm right so the only thing you can do is to concede.

I'd love to visit Arizona. Maybe one day I'll get the opportunity, sigh.

Interesting info about the interstates. :)
 

live627

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it seems like a gotcha question because it appears that you have jumped to the conclusion that I'm somehow in support of restricting access to restorative care for rape victims, which includes an abortion.

I'm against being irresponsible with reproductive organs where the reason is just to have fun where there is a possibility of having to go to a professional to undo a screw up.
 

Retro

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Ok, now that's a bit clearer. But you must remember, I can only go by what you've written, not read your mind and your original statement sounds very pro life. Glad that's not the case! :)

Since there was a misunderstanding here, I agree that my "gotcha" questions as you put it, no longer apply. They certainly would for any pro life argument though.

I'm against being irresponsible with reproductive organs where the reason is just to have fun where there is a possibility of having to go to a professional to undo a screw up.
Yeah, that annoys me too, but again, being young (especially when young) heat of the moment etc, it's all too easy to condemn someone for getting into trouble, so I wouldn't be too judgemental about this.
 
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