The Hamas-Israel war thread

[data66]

Was interesting yesterday when the pagers of Hezbollah blew up. Israel has more skill than I knew. Mossad is pretty kick arse. I think they'll have a hefty pay day on this one though in regards to pay back. Also, the Iranian ambassador was injured - making it pretty clear they are hands on with Hezbollah rather than what they normally seem to say.

 

[Retro]

Yeah, sounds like something out of a movie. I'm all in for killing terrorists, but didn't they also kill and injure civilians? That I can't condone.

 

[Tiffany]

....and today walkie-talkies were triggered so more injuries and I'm not sure of any deaths. I haven't caught up with the latest news yet. Following the information how Mossad pulled this off is interesting.

 

[data66]

It is unfortunate and tragic when innocent people get hurt. The problem is, these are terrorists. Every terrorist has the potential to kill or maim thousands. I tend to go to Spock (Star Trek), "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one or the few."

I don't like seeing innocent people hurt. That is a risk terrorists take when they decide to go down that road. Their families can get hurt in cases like this. I wonder how many thousands or hundreds of thousands were saved by the actions these past few days to take out the terrorists? It's such a difficult situation. Humans can be cruel in the things we do to each other.

 

[Retro]

@data66 you're right that it's tragic that innocent people get hurt when fighting terrorists. Now, in principle, I agree with Israel turning electronic gadgets into bombs and taking those bastards out. However, I don't agree when they know that there's gonna be lots of innocent civilians as collateral damage, to achieve this. How does that make Israel any better than the terrorists they're trying to get rid of? Terrorism is never justified, no matter the cause. Find another way.

 

[data66]

I agree that Israel has gone overboard with the war. This pager/walkie talkie stuff is high tech fighting that really intrigues me though. I wish they could have done it to each one when they were alone.

I hate what happened on the 7th of October last year - seems like it can't have been that long ago really. Time just zips by. So many innocent lives snuffed out. So many tortured. So much disgusting cheering at the horrors. So much denial that it happened. Almost seems like we could be speaking of the Holocaust. Another disgusting display of human depravity.

Netanyahu is hell bent on revenge and staying in power. He's lost sight of his own humanity. He's becoming exactly what he's fighting. On that note - don't anyone think that I am anti-Jew or anti-Israel. All people deserve dignity, life, peace.

 

[Retro]

I agree that Israel has gone overboard with the war. This pager/walkie talkie stuff is high tech fighting that really intrigues me though. I wish they could have done it to each one when they were alon

Exactly. Nail only the terrorists and I'm fine with it. I'd also like to know the technical details of how they did it. Sounds quite James Bond, doesn't it?

I've long suspected that Israel let 7th October happen so that they could go after their enemies. I mean, they have one of the best intelligence agencies in the world, yet they got caught with their pants down. Really? If this is true, then just how many innocent people are dying and suffering because of it and how many more will get caught up in this awful war? I'm including innocent Palestinians in this, too.

 

[data66]

Sounds quite James Bond, doesn't it?

Yes it does!

I've long suspected that Israel let 7th October happen so that they could go after their enemies. I mean, they have one of the best intelligence agencies in the world, yet they got caught with their pants down. Really? If this is true, then just how many innocent people are dying and suffering because of it and how many more will get caught up in this awful war? I'm including innocent Palestinians in this, too.

We wondered the same thing. Didn't they also get warned of something coming, by US intelligence info? I may be wrong about that but I thought I had read it someplace. Need to research that.

 

[Retro]

I think they did get warnings of it, yes. Makes that corruption worse. Will be interesting to see what your furious Googling finds.

 

[Tiffany]

I concur with the both of you, that Israel has gone too far, and I fear the repercussions that may have a further reach than what our US intelligence is able to manage. The US and the UK among other NATO countries are very stretched with both man power and military assets and ammunition. How well can we support so many wars at one time?

I'm also fascinated in the technology trail and logistics (not in anyway supportive of killing innocent people), of how Israel pulled this off with the modified pagers and walkie-tailkies.

 

[data66]

I think they did get warnings of it, yes. Makes that corruption worse. Will be interesting to see what your furious Googling finds.

Yeah, they knew. https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/01/middleeast/israel-hamas-gaza-intelligence-intl/index.html for more than a year. Gee.

 

[Tiffany]

Thanks @data66 for your link. I've heard news reports early on that Israel new about this coming, but your article is very clear. Even our CIA gave a warning 48 hours before, apparently by using satellite, seeing unusual activity.

An October 5 wire from the CIA warned generally of the increasing possibility of violence by Hamas.

Then, on October 6, the day before the attack, US officials circulated reporting from Israel indicating unusual activity by Hamas — indications that are now clear: an attack was imminent.​

Terrorists are very patient people when they are planning an attack. They always have been. The US 911 attack is an extreme example of the years it took for them to plan it.

Intelligence shared with the US suggested a small cell of Hamas operatives planned the deadly surprise attack via a network of hardwired phones built into the network of tunnels underneath Gaza over a period of two years, two sources familiar with the matter told CNN in late October.

 

[data66]

So, apparently Israel did the pager and walkie talkie attacks as hezbolla was planning their own October 8th type of attack.

 

[Retro]

Yeah, they knew. https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/01/middleeast/israel-hamas-gaza-intelligence-intl/index.html for more than a year. Gee.

Bloody hell, that's bad, way worse than I thought. Why is no one condemning Netanyahu for allowing hamas to murder and kidnap thousands of his own people?

 

[Retro]

Yup, this is obvious and should have happened a long time ago.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy has urged Joe Biden to allow Ukraine to carry out long-range strikes inside Russia with US-supplied weapons, and to earn “a place in history” by “strengthening Ukraine” before he leaves office.

Speaking before a crucial trip next week to Washington, where he will meet Biden and the US vice-president and presidential nominee, Kamala Harris, and address the UN, Zelenskyy said he would present a “victory plan” to end the war.

His vision for a “just peace” has not been made public. But in a media briefing with the Observer in Kyiv, Zelenskyy said it involved carrying out deep strikes with western missiles inside Russia – something London and Washington have so far refused.

Strikes inside Russia with US missiles key to Ukraine’s plan to end war, says Zelenskyy

Zelenskyy will present ‘victory plan’ to US president during trip to Washington next week, when he is also likely to hold talks with Trump

www.theguardian.com

 

[Retro]

There's not been many updates to this thread since it became apparent that the war is sliding away from Ukraine since they were never allowed to hit back properly, ie inside Russia, for the longest time and now Trump is in power who is openly hostile to Ukraine.

Well, now there's a doozy of an update and of course, now that Trump is back in power, it's a really bad one: Trump actually blames Ukraine for the war! Yup, he claims that they should have just rolled over and allowed Russia to take over before the war even started. With this, you can be sure that he's gonna hand Ukraine over to Russia on a plate. This so-called "deal" that he keeps referencing will be just that, you wait and see.

President Donald Trump claimed in part two of a televised interview that the nearly three-year-old war between Russia and Ukraine that started when Moscow’s forces kicked off an invasion in 2022 was the fault of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s failure to preemptively capitulate before Russian troops began their attack.

Trump made the incendiary comments in a pre-taped interview with Fox News host Sean Hannity that aired Thursday on Hannity’s program.

After Hannity asked about Trump’s threat to impose tariffs as a penalty on Russia if the Ukrainian war continues much longer, Trump responded that Zelensky “has had enough” and “wants to settle” with Russian president Vladimir Putin.

Zelensky, he said, is “no angel” and “shouldn’t have allowed this war to happen,” even though it was Russia that invaded Ukraine.

Trump says Ukraine should have surrendered to Russia and blames Zelensky for war

Trump claims that the Ukrainian leader decided he ‘wanted to fight’ when it was actually Russia who started hostilities between the two countries

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[live627]

they were never allowed to hit back properly, ie inside Russia, for the longest time

This is how we get nuclear war.

 

[Retro]

This is how we get nuclear war.

No it's not. This is what Biden was afraid of for the longest time when Russia threatened nukes and now that he allowed Ukraine to hit back deep inside Russia, whe're somehow all still here. Ukraine may had already beaten Russia had they been allowed to do this from the start.

Just like the other day, they blew up one of Russia's biggest oil refineries and again, we’re all still here.

 

[live627]

whe're somehow all still here

Because none of those hits were existential threats to Russia's existence and so never triggered nuclear missiles as per their nuclear doctrine.

 

[Retro]

That's debatable. Striking at Russia's war machine is what matters most and Ukraine wasn't allowed to do it before due to Biden's fear of nuclear retaliation, which hasn't happened.

It was obvious that playing a purely defensive game would simply allow Russia to continuously regenerate and continue the war, as they have been. No wonder Zelensky badgered the West so hard to hit deep inside Russia.