Battery Backup & Surge Protector UPS System ~ Question (+Star Trek)

[Tiffany]

I have the following backup and surge protector UPS system:

CyberPower EC850LCD Ecologic Battery Backup & Surge Protector UPS System, 850VA/510W, 12 Outlets, ECO Mode, Compact, Uninterruptible Power Supply ​

On one side of the battery backup it says: Battery supported and surge protected outlets. I have plugged in both my laptops and desktop PC on this side.

We live in pseudo country, where we have power outages with bad storms. When we have a power outage, my pc's are shut down, rather then staying on, as the battery backup should maintain as I thought what the battery was designed for?

Thoughts? Have I set this up wrong, since my computers are getting shut down during power outages?

 

[Tiffany]

@Digerati it's a typo....I guess I was thinking of AVG-Antivirus and consistently wrote it out again, even though I stared right at the title of the UPS on the Amazon link before I wrote it. Thanks for bringing that up so kindly...technology is confusing enough and I wouldn't want to confuse anyone.

Thank you also for sharing your experience. I'm so glad you took note of the anomalies on your UPS displays and also had the multimeter on hand to test. You likely saved so many other appliances and such for your neighbors too. That's really exceptional that your power company took such quick action by arriving when they did and routed your "tap" to an adjacent tap until the repair could be completed.

 

[Retro]

That's shocking* about the high voltage, not heard of that before in the US or UK. Did you unplug everything or pull the main breaker when you first noticed the high voltage? Did the room lights look brighter?

I guess it's more likely in the US though due to that centre tap, something that isn't normally used in the UK for 230v mains.

*Pun not intended.

 

[Digerati]

I didn't notice the lights being brighter - I was too focused on all the UPSs beeping. I did turn off the AC and the fridge so they would not cycle on. Everything else was just off. I did think about unplugging my big screen and home theater audio knowing they were really just in standby mode. But I decided since they all have universal power supplies these days, capable of 90 to 240VAC, I was not going to worry about unplugging them. Only things with motors and compressors.

I am sure they use taps in the UK, EU and elsewhere too since 440/880/1760 is commonly used to distribute power out to local neighborhoods. You cannot send 220/240 over long distances. Too much loss due to resistance.

 

[Retro]

I didn't notice the lights being brighter - I was too focused on all the UPSs beeping. I did turn off the AC and the fridge so they would not cycle on. Everything else was just off. I did think about unplugging my big screen and home theater audio knowing they were really just in standby mode. But I decided since they all have universal power supplies these days, capable of 90 to 240VAC, I was not going to worry about unplugging them. Only things with motors and compressors.

lol I'll bet! Mind you, if they're LED lights, then they'll have a voltage regulator which likely would take out the excess voltage.

Sounds like a reasonable stategy there.

I am sure they use taps in the UK, EU and elsewhere too since 440/880/1760 is commonly used to distribute power out to local neighborhoods. You cannot send 220/240 over long distances. Too much loss due to resistance.

Oh yes indeed. The major difference is that we don't use a centre tap arrangement for domestic power like you have, so no 120-0-120 transformers for the last mile to the home. If I remember correctly, if that centre tap wire breaks, then one sees 240v at the socket, which is obviously a Bad Thing.

I saw this very interesting video on exactly this a while back. Check it out.

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And yes, for long distance transmission, high voltage is of course used along with taps for such things as 480v and three phase supplies for industrial uses.

I dread to think what a 1760v short or shock would do...

 

[Digerati]

Not sure why the "huh" above. Yes, we have 120VAC to the outlets throughout most of the house. But we still have 240VAC coming into our service panels, and we have 240VAC in our kitchens for the stove/oven, to furnace rooms for those with electric heat, to our central AC compressors, and in laundry rooms for electric clothes dryer.

The major difference is that we don't use a centre tap arrangement for domestic power like you have

Ummm, sure you do. Note I never said "center" (or centre ) tap, you did. "Center" implies the middle, with either side being equal. I am not suggesting that. I also never said anything about phasing (120-0-120). Those are issues, but not for this topic.

Transformers with a variety of tap settings, including multiple tap settings, are commonly used (even in the UK) because it is MUCH cheaper (in terms of logistics - inventories) to have one model transformer that (with a minor tap adjustment) can quickly (if necessary) be used in multiple applications/scenarios/neighborhoods.

Last - I used to live and work as a certified electronics technician in England for several years.

 

[Retro]

@Digerati I'm not sure what "huh" you're referring to. I'm simply talking about the differences in the US and UK mains systems. If anything, I like the US system better in some ways, as a 120V shock is considerably less lethal than a 240V one, which I think is a fair trade-off for supplying less power at the socket, eg slower kettles. I've had several 240V shocks years ago unfortunately and I can tell you that they're no joke. Bloody awful and it can stop the heart just like that, especially if the heart is weak.

To summarize it, leaving out the ground wire you have 120-0-120 (3 wires) with a centre tapped transformer on a pole near your house, while we have 0-240 (2 wires) straight into the house from the substation which no doubt has multiple taps.

It sounds like you haven't seen the video yet. Seriously, it was fascinating and I learned a lot on it about the American way of providing electrical power, so please do give it a watch.

 

[Tiffany]

I added a weather thread inspired by all of this great conversation in this thread on how to survive power losses, and best ideas for making it through severe weather events.

The official Nerdzoner's weather zone! How's your weather today?

How's your weather today?

nerdzone.uk

 

[Digerati]

@Digerati I'm not sure what "huh" you're referring to

Huh? I was referring to the HUGE "HUH" with the HUGE "ARROW" in your screen shot above.

I've been hit by 240VAC and I agree, it is no fun. But neither is 120VAC which can easily kill you too.

I am afraid you seem to be misunderstanding how power is delivered to American homes. That is NOT a criticism - just an observation of a common misconception by those who have not studied how it works here. And sadly, these misconceptions are widely published in other countries. I used to encounter these confusions all the time when I lived in England and Germany. I also lived in Portugal (Azores, actually) but that was a whole different tangled bundle of confusion - and why we generated out own power.

American homes do NOT have 120 drops into the home from the pole (or underground transformer in newer neighborhoods). We have 240VAC. As I already said above (and as noted in your video), our kitchen ovens, furnaces, central AC units, EV chargers, and even large window AC units all run on 240VAC.

It sounds like you haven't seen the video yet.

I did. He clearly states right from the beginning and throughout the video that we have 240 drops into our homes. We do not have 2 x 120VAC. We have 240VAC that is split into 120VAC and 120VAC. That is NOT the same thing as having 120VAC drops.

Here's another video that is very informative - though not near as entertaining as yours.

240V is the Standard U.S. Household Voltage (Kinda.)

s.co.tt

 

[Retro]

@Digerati Right, I think we're just a little at cross purposes / misunderstanding that's all. We're actually saying the same thing.

That "huh" is a little bit of clickbait by the video creator to draw people in who don't realise that US homes have a 240V supply, is all. I thought you were referring to me saying "huh".

And yes, of course US homes have a 240V supply. I'm just pointing out that it's delivered differently and used differently to us here in sunny Brexit Blighty* is all, as per that video. You have two lots of 120V (3 phase Wye configuration) which add to 240V when something is connected to the two 120V lines and 120V between a 120V line and the centre tap, while we only have one lot of 240V.

Finally, minor correction from me: UK power is actually 230V nowadays to harmonise with Europe's 220V and I've confirmed it with a multimeter. It's been this way for years now, so I should have written 230V, not 240V.

*Sarcasm against brexit. Hate it.

 

[CyberGeek]

@Digerati I'm not sure what "huh" you're referring to.

@Digerati got me there too

 

[Tiffany]

Meant to come back to this thread for an update on my UPS-AVR set up. Now that we've had a few serious spring storms and a loss of power for over 5 hours in one recent storm, I've been able to access my new set up. I broke up my computers on two separate UPS's as suggested and felt much better about that. Added a new UPS with more power for the internet stuff. I took my older UPS's and set them up for our electric furniture in the living room, plugged in another just because, and had one left over for my electric blanket. They all chirped and went crazy when we lost power but this time, I really didn't mind it because I knew with the support from this thread, that it was finally "all good" and I wouldn't have to worry about losing a computer. Also, a plus, if we were stuck in the cold without power, we could recline our furniture in the living room, with a fire going and not have to worry about that issue where you can't recline because of zero power. I now have 6 UPS's of various sizes set up in various places for best use. Thanks everyone!!

 

[Digerati]

Great! I am glad you have your situation all sorted out. I have to admit, I never thought about not being able to recline (or go back to upright). Makes me glad I stuck with the manually operated, hand-lever on my Lay-z-boy.

Now just remember, it is normal maintenance to have to replace UPS batteries every 2 to 5 years. The frequency depends on how often they flip to battery, how long they run on battery, and how big the demand. And never buy replacements from the UPS maker - unless you want to pay double.

 

[Tiffany]

Great! I am glad you have your situation all sorted out. I have to admit, I never thought about not being able to recline (or go back to upright). Makes me glad I stuck with the manually operated, hand-lever on my Lay-z-boy.

Now just remember, it is normal maintenance to have to replace UPS batteries every 2 to 5 years. The frequency depends on how often they flip to battery, how long they run on battery, and how big the demand. And never buy replacements from the UPS maker - unless you want to pay double.

Yes, it was very reassuring being better prepared for bad weather....thank you so much!

In snowmageddon of February 2021 and icemageddon of February of 2022, we learned the downside of reclining couches and chairs. When we lost power, the house temperature got down to 40 degrees inside, and that was even in the room where we had the fireplace going, so the bedrooms were even colder, while outside was zero degrees. We all had to sleep in the living room with the fire, but lost the power both of these years and when you can't recline your chairs, you have to sleep sitting upwards. In icemageddon of 2023 (end of January), we reclined our furniture just in case we lost power. Our spring storms this year have been pretty volatile, so it's great to be ready for them, and having the UPS on the furniture was a relief as a "just in case". I don't think I would have thought of that but since we have talked about electric blankets here it only made sense for the furniture. We have also decided no more electric furniture next time either, lol....kind of like sending the poltergeist TV out the door, that's about the way we feel about electric furniture right now.

Thank you for the reminder @Digerati on when to replace the UPS's. Maybe, I should get super-nerd and put a reminder in my phone to replace them in two years or so, or at least evaluate their longevity based on our weather events while they've been in use. Good Point!

 

[Digerati]

Well, I might suggest you at least label each UPS with a date to indicate when the current batteries were new or last replaced.

 

[Tiffany]

Well, I might suggest you at least label each UPS with a date to indicate when the current batteries were new or last replaced.

Labeling is a much simpler option, isn't it . I did that with our shower filters....lol...I can do that with our UPS's. Thank YOU!!

 

[Tiffany]

Sooooo.....yesterday, I just had another unexpected lesson and that is I had not considered extra UPS's for my televisions, cable receivers and all of that "stuff" that's usually plugged in for TV viewing. Earlier lessons included being ready for winter storms and power losses, however, I didn't consider lightening strikes.

Yesterday, we had a short electrical storm with cloud to ground lightening. During a few huge explosions of thunder and lightening, there was also a load clash that came from my work-out room. The short story is my cable receiver got fried. My lesson, is I failed to fully protect my entertainment equipment with UPS's. This weekend I'll be ordering three more UPS's so hopefully no more equipment losses.

 

[Digerati]

My lesson, is I failed to fully protect my entertainment equipment with UPS's.

For sure, I have my cable box (and AV receiver, Blu-Ray player, Roku box, Ethernet switch, and TV) on an UPS too.

HOWEVER, if you have upset Mother Nature and she decides to toss a lightning bolt directly at you, there is NOTHING you can do to ensure you are fully protected from direct strikes. A determined lightning bolt can simply jump (arc) around any block you put in its way.

Fortunately, direct hits on a house are pretty rare. They typically hit a nearby pole or tree. Still, the best preventative measure when you know a lightning storm is coming is to run around the house and unplug everything from the wall. But who does that? Especially when you are trying to keep watch on the weather?

So the next best thing is to at least power down everything - and keep your home owners/renters insurance up to date.

 

[Retro]

Tiffs, would it be worth installing a lightning conductor on your property, perhaps? It's all a matter of cost v risk whether it's worth it or not.

High voltage is scary and unpredictable, as we all know. A lightning strike can go through a foot thick solid brick wall to strike a cable on the inside. Saw something about that once on TV that showed a lightning strike on a church with walls that thick.

 

[Tiffany]

For sure, I have my cable box (and AV receiver, Blu-Ray player, Roku box, Ethernet switch, and TV) on an UPS too.

HOWEVER, if you have upset Mother Nature and she decides to toss a lightning bolt directly at you, there is NOTHING you can do to ensure you are fully protected from direct strikes. A determined lightning bolt can simply jump (arc) around any block you put in its way.

Fortunately, direct hits on a house are pretty rare. They typically hit a nearby pole or tree. Still, the best preventative measure when you know a lightning storm is coming is to run around the house and unplug everything from the wall. But who does that? Especially when you are trying to keep watch on the weather?

So the next best thing is to at least power down everything - and keep your home owners/renters insurance up to date.

....and that's what I'm going to do too.....I'll add all of my entertainment equipment to a UPS. Question ~ just as you recommended not plugging in three computers to one UPS, is it okay to have all of the same entertainment equipment plugged into the same UPS or is there a maximum amount I should plugin, and then have a second UPS? Or does it depend on the size of the UPS? Which is better then, two smaller UPS's to disperse entertainment devices, or one higher powered UPS?

That makes sense on how lightening works, because I was thinking, why this receiver and not the TV? I did shut down my main computer and my laptops, I disabled the power for awhile. But, yeah, it would be hard to go around and unplug things. I can say this though, my new UPS's did their job. I heard the click noises like I was supposed too (not that I want to hear it at all), whereas my older UPS's didn't "click" when there was a power disruption.

Tiffs, would it be worth installing a lightning conductor on your property, perhaps? It's all a matter of cost v risk whether it's worth it or not.

High voltage is scary and unpredictable, as we all know. A lightning strike can go through a foot thick solid brick wall to strike a cable on the inside. Saw something about that once on TV that showed a lightning strike on a church with walls that thick.

Maybe? I thought our homes were grounded in some way, but not sure now? The neighbor we walk with during the week, actually had her house struck by lightening and started a fire in her garage a few years ago . To reference to @Digerati on the action of a lightening strike, when her house was struck, the "arc" went across the street and hit another house too. I could have sworn she said the strike went underground, but maybe I'm just dreaming that? In any event, I'll have to ask her again, if she did anything extra to mitigate any future lightening strikes. Good thought @Retro , I'll look into it. The power of lightening is really awesome and deadly if a strike can go through thick walls of a church. Wow!!

 

[Digerati]

is it okay to have all of the same entertainment equipment plugged into the same UPS or is there a maximum amount I should plugin

It depends on the power demand/load. Typically the AV receiver/amplifiers are the most demanding. Next comes the big screen TV. That said, even with a high power receiver, it is extremely rare for all channels (speakers) to be driven to maximum capacity at the same moment. I have all my equipment on a single 1500VA UPS.

Tiffs, would it be worth installing a lightning conductor on your property, perhaps?

You sure would NOT want a lightning "conductor"! You don't want to attract lightning. And if lightning comes your way anyway, you want to isolate/insulate the house from it. So pretty sure Retro meant lightning "arrestor". And that might be a good idea.

I thought our homes were grounded in some way, but not sure now?

No doubt it is grounded in several ways. And in most cases, that is good enough. But if your house is the highest point around, additional lightning protection may be needed. You often see these on barns and farmhouses out in the boonies. They are big metal rods that stick up on the high points of the roofs. They are directly connected via a big (typically copper) ground cable to a grounding rod (or rods) pounded several feet into the ground. The idea is lightning will hit the rod on the roof and be "shunted" around the building (due to the low resistance in the cable) and [hopefully] harmlessly into the ground.

Note you will often see marketing hype for "whole house surge protectors" claiming to protect your house from lightning strikes and other surges and spikes. Marketing "hype" is the key phrase there. Yes, they help protect from anomalies coming off the grid. But not from a direct hit. They also do nothing if your oven, or $15 1500W hair dryer or another high wattage device inside your house is faulty and introduces a surge on the circuit.

I could have sworn she said the strike went underground

It always does - or tries to anyway. The issue becomes, what does the lightning hit or go through on its way to Earth ground. Another problem is, how wet or "conductive" is the ground (dirt) around the electrical grounding point. If saturated with water, you better not be standing near there when lightning strikes.

 

[Tiffany]

It depends on the power demand/load. Typically the AV receiver/amplifiers are the most demanding. Next comes the big screen TV. That said, even with a high power receiver, it is extremely rare for all channels (speakers) to be driven to maximum capacity at the same moment. I have all my equipment on a single 1500VA UPS.


You sure would NOT want a lightning "conductor"! You don't want to attract lightning. And if lightning comes your way anyway, you want to isolate/insulate the house from it. So pretty sure Retro meant lightning "arrestor". And that might be a good idea.


No doubt it is grounded in several ways. And in most cases, that is good enough. But if your house is the highest point around, additional lightning protection may be needed. You often see these on barns and farmhouses out in the boonies. They are big metal rods that stick up on the high points of the roofs. They are directly connected via a big (typically copper) ground cable to a grounding rod (or rods) pounded several feet into the ground. The idea is lightning will hit the rod on the roof and be "shunted" around the building (due to the low resistance in the cable) and [hopefully] harmlessly into the ground.

Note you will often see marketing hype for "whole house surge protectors" claiming to protect your house from lightning strikes and other surges and spikes. Marketing "hype" is the key phrase there. Yes, they help protect from anomalies coming off the grid. But not from a direct hit. They also do nothing if your oven, or $15 1500W hair dryer or another high wattage device inside your house is faulty and introduces a surge on the circuit.


It always does - or tries to anyway. The issue becomes, what does the lightning hit or go through on its way to Earth ground. Another problem is, how wet or "conductive" is the ground (dirt) around the electrical grounding point. If saturated with water, you better not be standing near there when lightning strikes.

Thank you for all of your advice!! I will get a 1500VA UPS for our living room and upstairs media room, and a smaller one for the other room because that small room doesn't have all of the sound equipment etc.

Our house is actually at the lowest end of our street at the creek side, good to know. That would also make sense why my neighbor's house was struck by lightening, as she's at the highest leveled street of our neighborhood and next to a lot of pasture land. I think my friend did get something like that for her house, but now I'm curious and I'll ask again.

Good to know about whole house surge protectors too! Oh and that's pretty scary about the water saturation and lightening strikes. We have caliche rock and black gumbo clay soil. I'm not sure of the moisture content in our soil vs. lightening strikes, but I can say it's really hard to dig.

Caliche: Also known as calcrete, hardpan, and duricrust

Caliche is a shallow layer of soil or sediment that has been cemented together by the precipitation of calcium carbonate or other mineral material.

geology.com

 

[Digerati]

I never heard of black gumbo clay but I am very familiar with caliche having grown up in Arizona. In any case, soil content is why grounding rods should be pounded in at least 8 feet.

No doubt your service is grounded where it enters your house. Every power pole is also grounded, as is every transformer and power substation. Still, homes get hit all the time.

 

[Tiffany]

We have the black clay/dirt that sits under the caliche rock probably same as Arizona just a bit of different soil under the rock. Good to know about the grounding rods!

Sad that homes get struck all of the time, more than I realized. It must be terrifying when it happens, just the noise that came from that room was really different when the receiver blew.

 

[Digerati]

I just read 1 in every 200 homes get hit by lightning every year!!! That is way more than I thought. Obviously, most don't catch fire. I've lived in this house for 35 years and am not aware of any house in my neighborhood that has had a fire - knock on head/wood.

 

[Retro]

This discussion reminds me of my electrical principles class waaay back in college where we learned about how the electricity grid works. When power is sent as high voltage over those pylons, they're all live wires, ie there's no neutral or ground wire. So, how does the circuit complete with the power station? It runs through the earth! Yup, there are great big grounding rods in various strategic places of the grid and the current literally travels through the earth. Sounds unlikely, but it's true and I'm surprised that more isn't made of this fact.