Battery Backup & Surge Protector UPS System ~ Question (+Star Trek)

[Tiffany]

I have the following backup and surge protector UPS system:

CyberPower EC850LCD Ecologic Battery Backup & Surge Protector UPS System, 850VA/510W, 12 Outlets, ECO Mode, Compact, Uninterruptible Power Supply ​

On one side of the battery backup it says: Battery supported and surge protected outlets. I have plugged in both my laptops and desktop PC on this side.

We live in pseudo country, where we have power outages with bad storms. When we have a power outage, my pc's are shut down, rather then staying on, as the battery backup should maintain as I thought what the battery was designed for?

Thoughts? Have I set this up wrong, since my computers are getting shut down during power outages?

 

[Tiffany]

I just read 1 in every 200 homes get hit by lightning every year!!! That is way more than I thought. Obviously, most don't catch fire. I've lived in this house for 35 years and am not aware of any house in my neighborhood that has had a fire - knock on head/wood.

Wow, that's quite a statistic. I'm glad you have had a solid house for thirty five years... *knocking on wood*....they don't build homes like they used to anymore, do they?

This discussion reminds me of my electrical principles class waaay back in college where we learned about how the electricity grid works. When power is sent as high voltage over those pylons, they're all live wires, ie there's no neutral or ground wire. So, how does the circuit complete with the power station? It runs through the earth! Yup, there are great big grounding rods in various strategic places of the grid and the current literally travels through the earth. Sounds unlikely, but it's true and I'm surprised that more isn't made of this fact.

I know it's the nerd in me, but electrical vocabulary is very cool and it's always great to learn something new about circuits, power stations etc.

 

[Digerati]

This discussion reminds me of my electrical principles class waaay back in college where we learned about how the electricity grid works. When power is sent as high voltage over those pylons, they're all live wires, ie there's no neutral or ground wire

Not always. You are right about neutral. Instead you typically see "hot" 3 wires because there are 3 phases. You would not want those wires to touch each other. In my neighborhood, at least a couple times a year, we have a couple of the larger squirrels become "crispy critters" when they forget to let go of one wire before grabbing on to the other. The resounding "explosion" sound of the transformer fuse blowing is literally window rattling. Fortunately, our local power company is pretty good at restoring power in about an hour - due in part to residents calling in outages allowing them to quickly triangulate on the specific transformer in question.

And every pole and tower is grounded. And in many areas, you will see a single 4th wire at the very top, above the other 3 (or sets of 3).

https://hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/transmission-line-ground-wire-themed.png

That top wire is Earth ground. However, it is NOT intended as a current "return" conductor but instead, to simply ground the tower or pole, protecting it from lightning - but also to protect people and wildlife from getting zapped should they touch the tower.

Having every pole, tower and substation grounded to Earth ground helps ensure the entire grid is at a "common" ground potential. Otherwise, you might walk between two towers and "feel" a tingle - or hopefully no more than a tingle!

....they don't build homes like they used to anymore, do they?

No they don't. In most cases, today's are much better. The electrical safety codes today are much more stringent and safe then they were back when my house was built. For example, my house (except for the kitchen, laundry and bathrooms) originally had 2-conductor aluminum wires to all the outlets and light switches throughout the rest of the house. It also had a fuse box instead of circuit breakers.

I also note in many, if not most new construction areas, utilities are buried. That is a much better and safer solution - as long as people remember to get the necessary digging permits!

Depending on where you live, houses today must provide better protection from hurricanes and other severe weather, be better insulated, block and/or vent radon and more. And more and more jurisdictions are requiring windows block UV too.

 

[Tiffany]

Not always. You are right about neutral. Instead you typically see "hot" 3 wires because there are 3 phases. You would not want those wires to touch each other. In my neighborhood, at least a couple times a year, we have a couple of the larger squirrels become "crispy critters" when they forget to let go of one wire before grabbing on to the other. The resounding "explosion" sound of the transformer fuse blowing is literally window rattling. Fortunately, our local power company is pretty good at restoring power in about an hour - due in part to residents calling in outages allowing them to quickly triangulate on the specific transformer in question.

And every pole and tower is grounded. And in many areas, you will see a single 4th wire at the very top, above the other 3 (or sets of 3).

https://hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/transmission-line-ground-wire-themed.png

That top wire is Earth ground. However, it is NOT intended as a current "return" conductor but instead, to simply ground the tower or pole, protecting it from lightning - but also to protect people and wildlife from getting zapped should they touch the tower.

Having every pole, tower and substation grounded to Earth ground helps ensure the entire grid is at a "common" ground potential. Otherwise, you might walk between two towers and "feel" a tingle - or hopefully no more than a tingle!


No they don't. In most cases, today's are much better. The electrical safety codes today are much more stringent and safe then they were back when my house was built. For example, my house (except for the kitchen, laundry and bathrooms) originally had 2-conductor aluminum wires to all the outlets and light switches throughout the rest of the house. It also had a fuse box instead of circuit breakers.

I also note in many, if not most new construction areas, utilities are buried. That is a much better and safer solution - as long as people remember to get the necessary digging permits!

Depending on where you live, houses today must provide better protection from hurricanes and other severe weather, be better insulated, block and/or vent radon and more. And more and more jurisdictions are requiring windows block UV too.

K, now I'm too aware that there might be the threat of a "tingle" if I'm walking in between two towers.

On homes, defiantly better coding requirements and I can understand the necessity for circuit breakers, rather than fuse boxes. When we moved into this house, we had to add an additional circuit breaker panel....well, actually, the electrician added the panel.

I do question the actual craftsmanship of home building now a days. It does vary from builder to state as to what quality of home you are buying. I recall years ago (childhood) that a house in the neighborhood next to us caught on fire and completely burned, I believe the reason was copper wiring? I don't think builders use copper wiring anymore? Memory is fuzzy on this, though, but I seem to recall the issue was the wiring.

 

[Digerati]

I do question the actual craftsmanship of home building now a days.

I can't argue with that. In many cases, not even sure you could call it a "craft" anymore. They "assemble" parts - often using cookie cutter plans so your "custom" built home is exactly like the other 99 in your neighborhood.

I believe the reason was copper wiring? I don't think builders use copper wiring anymore?

Did you mean to say copper? Or Aluminum? Aluminum is no longer used (or even allowed in most, if not all places). Copper is required these days.

 

[Tiffany]

I can't argue with that. In many cases, not even sure you could call it a "craft" anymore. They "assemble" parts - often using cookie cutter plans so your "custom" built home is exactly like the other 99 in your neighborhood.


Did you mean to say copper? Or Aluminum? Aluminum is no longer used (or even allowed in most, if not all places). Copper is required these days.

Then it was aluminum.....this is going back to the 1970's, so you can see why my little story is a bit fuzzy in memory

I've noticed that in custom homes over the past twenty years, they are all just a variation of the same theme. Craftsmanship has indeed changed for lessor quality. What I miss is stained cabinets too. They all seem to paint them white. I realize that's a preference, but I think properly stained wood is really nice.

 

[Digerati]

As for variation on themes, I suspect that is because designing all new requires an architect, and perhaps city/county (not to mention HOA) approvals. And all that means more money.

I like stained cabinets too. I think painted is considered easier to keep clean.

 

[Retro]

And every pole and tower is grounded. And in many areas, you will see a single 4th wire at the very top, above the other 3 (or sets of 3).

https://hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/transmission-line-ground-wire-themed.png
That top wire is Earth ground. However, it is NOT intended as a current "return" conductor but instead, to simply ground the tower or pole, protecting it from lightning - but also to protect people and wildlife from getting zapped should they touch the tower.

Interesting configuration. I've never seen a pylon with those wires in the UK, so presumably it's like that in the US in places.

I've remembered another fact: there can be a certain amount of voltage in the ground due to leakage currents, which fades with distance from the pylon. This means that a person standing near one won't feel anything, while a cow, with its much wider spaced legs, could get an uncomfortable shock from it, or even be killed. I think they've mitigated this problem nowadays though.

I feel sorry for those squirrels though, damn. At least it's instant.

 

[Digerati]

The thing about the UK (and most of Europe, and parts of Southeast Asia for that matter) is almost the entire infrastructure had to be rebuilt from scratch after WWII. This gave the industry the opportunity to bury much not only because that is the better solution, but also much more robust in case, God forbid, there is another war.

Also, England is about the size of the state of Alabama - which is ranked 30th among the 50 states. The entire UK is about the size of the state of Oregon. So obviously, power distribution over much greater distances is much more of a challenge (and expense) in the US (and Canada and elsewhere). In flat open places, those large towers can easily be 1000 feet or more apart.

The tallest towers in the world are over 1200 tall and over a 1.5 miles apart! And they may transmit up to 230kV potentials. The hairs on my head are standing up from here just thinking about that.

Anyway, buried cables are grounded to Earth ground much more easily, and most likely at many more points along their path.

 

[Tiffany]

The thing about the UK (and most of Europe, and parts of Southeast Asia for that matter) is almost the entire infrastructure had to be rebuilt from scratch after WWII. This gave the industry the opportunity to bury much not only because that is the better solution, but also much more robust in case, God forbid, there is another war.

Also, England is about the size of the state of Alabama - which is ranked 30th among the 50 states. The entire UK is about the size of the state of Oregon. So obviously, power distribution over much greater distances is much more of a challenge (and expense) in the US (and Canada and elsewhere). In flat open places, those large towers can easily be 1000 feet or more apart.

The tallest towers in the world are over 1200 tall and over a 1.5 miles apart! And they may transmit up to 230kV potentials. The hairs on my head are standing up from here just thinking about that.

Anyway, buried cables are grounded to Earth ground much more easily, and most likely at many more points along their path.

Interesting history on the state of the infrastructure after WW2.

Why can't island nations have underground cables? It seems that islands like in the Cayman's and Puerto Rico would do better to have under ground cables rather then the electric running on poles? These islands are battered by hurricanes every year and they all seem to have above ground poles?

As for variation on themes, I suspect that is because designing all new requires an architect, and perhaps city/county (not to mention HOA) approvals. And all that means more money.

I like stained cabinets too. I think painted is considered easier to keep clean.

Stained cabinets or wood furniture are so easy to refresh with lemon oil, old English or minwax. I've refreshed furniture through out the years with success. I do agree, white is easier because you can wipe it down. My issue now with my white cabinets in the bathrooms, is the humidity makes the white paint start to peal or crack. Now they have to be repainted....sigh.

Interesting configuration. I've never seen a pylon with those wires in the UK, so presumably it's like that in the US in places.

I've remembered another fact: there can be a certain amount of voltage in the ground due to leakage currents, which fades with distance from the pylon. This means that a person standing near one won't feel anything, while a cow, with its much wider spaced legs, could get an uncomfortable shock from it, or even be killed. I think they've mitigated this problem nowadays though.

I feel sorry for those squirrels though, damn. At least it's instant.

I didn't know this about voltage. Poor animals

 

[Tiffany]

About a month ago, our neighborhood had a huge lightening strike and I lost my receiver. There was a huge noise that came from the room this receiver was in. My dogs have not been the same since this happened because it was such a loud noise and they are now a bit anxious during electrical storms. I've always had dogs that did just fine during bad weather, but I'd say this was an extremely unusual event. What I didn't know and just learned the other day, was the lightening strike, this same day, was so severe that it struck the house at the top of the hill in my neighborhood and affected several homes on that street where electronics were lost. It's been shared that lightening strikes can run under ground and it would appear this is what happened? The peculiar part of this is that my house is on the lower end of my neighborhood and that strike went pretty far then?

I walk with my neighbors every morning and the other day, a neighbor was checking their mail. My one neighbor is very chatty and new that this neighbors house was struck by lightening and we got to hear the whole story from this neighbor. The house lost 70% of it's wiring, bathroom cabinets were blown off their hinges, the effects of the lightening bored a whole in their concrete patio too. Apparently, the lightening struck their fireplace initially. They have to replace their carpet in the living room because soot was completely blown everywhere from the strike at the chimney. The fire department came and said that this would have been the worst lightening strike they have ever seen, but because the house didn't catch on fire, then it's the second. How lucky the house didn't catch on fire, but they are pretty shaken. These people will basically have to rebuild their house. This is the third lightening strike story from my neighborhood. My chatty neighbor, had a lightening strike a few years ago, but her house did catch on fire. The strike also went underground to the two houses across from her too.

My dh said that the lightening strike did not cause my receiver to blow, but it was the "heat sink" in the receiver that disengaged from it's base. Did the strike just make that happen? I guess probably not because I would think I would have lost more electronics in the room or elsewhere? Either way, something happened?

Now that I see I have more vulnerability in protecting electronics, I need to add three more AVR UPS's. This one room has just a small TV and receiver, the main living room has the receiver and TV, the media room has all of my dd's gaming consoles and the TV. What size's of UPS should I buy for these rooms or is it simple and I just need one size? I have 800VA, 1200VA and 1500VA for my computers etc.

The cable company said I didn't have to send my damaged receiver back, so my dh was more then eager to open it up and see what had come loose causing all of the rattle. The heat sink was affixed on the circuit board. Pics show the heat sink in place and and on the side for perspective. Here's some pics of my receiver.

 

[Digerati]

My dogs have not been the same since this happened because it was such a loud noise and they are now a bit anxious during electrical storms.

It is more about the pressures and what they feel in their sensitive ears and bodies when the Gods are having their bowling tournaments up there!

As far as lightning moving underground - it sure can. Lightning can easily be upwards of 300 million volts! The greater the voltage, the more distance it can travel. If this was during a heavy rain storm, no doubt the wet soil helped it propagate too.

My dh said that the lightening strike did not cause my receiver to blow, but it was the "heat sink" in the receiver that disengaged from it's base. Did the strike just make that happen?

Heat sinks don't just "disengage" or fall off - unless they were not properly mounted in the first place, or suffered some other extreme physical abuse like the device being bounced off a hard floor a couple times.

Are there exceptions? Well, when it comes to Mother Nature, always.

 

[Tiffany]

It is more about the pressures and what they feel in their sensitive ears and bodies when the Gods are having their bowling tournaments up there!

As far as lightning moving underground - it sure can. Lightning can easily be upwards of 300 million volts! The greater the voltage, the more distance it can travel. If this was during a heavy rain storm, no doubt the wet soil helped it propagate too.


Heat sinks don't just "disengage" or fall off - unless they were not properly mounted in the first place, or suffered some other extreme physical abuse like the device being bounced off a hard floor a couple times.

Are there exceptions? Well, when it comes to Mother Nature, always.

Yes, this lightening strike was during a severe storm event with lots of rain. Animals are really perceptive and I can only imagine what they must be feeling with pressure. I've been going through that since yesterday. I woke up with a migraine and had it most of the day. We had severe weather coming in yesterday and I had wondered if my migraine was part of reacting to the drop in barometric pressure?

My chatty neighbor that had the lightening strike had presumed that the lightening traveled underground to the houses across the street maybe by way of the sprinklers since they have power to them? I suppose one will never know how the lightening traveled?

The heat sink was attached by a tacky sticker like thing. I can see it just coming off if it had been loose for awhile. That receiver ran hot for a long time, which now that I'm thinking about it, the heat sink must have not been fully attached for awhile? Still, the noise that came out of that room when the lightening struck was very loud and out of this world. Maybe just a coincidence in timing? Mother Nature is very apt at causing chaos, indeed.

 

[Digerati]

I doubt sprinklers unless very VERY (many decades) old and use metal pipes. As far as sprinkler systems using power, that is true - but only at the timer/control box and valves. And lightning can easily jump from house to house through the air too. Or it could have been more than one lightning bolt.

There typically are 3 methods to mount a heatsink - all involve TIM (thermal interface materials). One is to use thermal tape-double-sided tape that also acts as TIM. Then there is thermal adhesive - a paste with thermal transfer properties that also glues the heatsink in place. And the third uses some sort of clamping mechanism - spring loaded levers and screws that hold the heatsink in place. A thin layer of traditional TIM (non-adhesive) is applied between the mating surfaces of the heatsink and the device.

In all scenarios, when mounted properly, they should not come off unless excessively abused.

As far as the receiver running hot, mine does too. But as far as I can tell checking my friends and neighbors, that seems normal. And I note if the case is hot, that could easily suggest that is heat that has been pulled away from the actual electronics - a good thing. The lesson there is, don't throw a blanket over the receiver or shove it in a small cubby hole - make sure it sits out in the open where there is decent circulation around it.

 

[Tiffany]

I doubt sprinklers unless very VERY (many decades) old and use metal pipes. As far as sprinkler systems using power, that is true - but only at the timer/control box and valves. And lightning can easily jump from house to house through the air too. Or it could have been more than one lightning bolt.

There typically are 3 methods to mount a heatsink - all involve TIM (thermal interface materials). One is to use thermal tape-double-sided tape that also acts as TIM. Then there is thermal adhesive - a paste with thermal transfer properties that also glues the heatsink in place. And the third uses some sort of clamping mechanism - spring loaded levers and screws that hold the heatsink in place. A thin layer of traditional TIM (non-adhesive) is applied between the mating surfaces of the heatsink and the device.

In all scenarios, when mounted properly, they should not come off unless excessively abused.

As far as the receiver running hot, mine does too. But as far as I can tell checking my friends and neighbors, that seems normal. And I note if the case is hot, that could easily suggest that is heat that has been pulled away from the actual electronics - a good thing. The lesson there is, don't throw a blanket over the receiver or shove it in a small cubby hole - make sure it sits out in the open where there is decent circulation around it.

My dh posed the same doubt about the sprinklers too. Our neighborhood is about 20 years old, so everything is pex pipe.

I would agree this event was likely more then one strike or at least a strike that splintered off randomly. My neighbor installed a lightening device and I have to ask her again what she installed after her fire. It wasn't a lightening rod, but I think it was a transient voltage surge protector but she didn't call it that, she called it something else? I'll find out as soon as she gets back from her trip.

I think there are mixed feelings on home lightening rods too? Why would you stick one on your roof to attract lightening?

I can see on my receiver how the heatsink was mounted with the double sided tape. Good to know that a receiver running hot is pretty normal. I've since installed the new receiver and it's now sitting at the top of a computer desk with complete access to air. That should help. Before, I did have it on the top of this desk but it was a little confined due to the molding that's around this desk. This desk is not the standard desk, it's a computer cabinet; tall with the doors that open to the desk inside.

Oh, and understood about not covering hot electronics with a blanket. A friend of mine's house caught on fire years and years ago from a hot circuit. The drapes caught on fire from the circuit. I'm always fanatical about making sure drapes are not covering an outlet and if they are, the outlet isn't being used.

 

[Digerati]

I think there are mixed feelings on home lightening rods too? Why would you stick one on your roof to attract lightening?

If there are any mixed feeling, it is likely due to a lack of understanding.

Lightning rods on top of houses are used so any lightening Mother Nature aims at your house hits the rod instead of your house. These are not just some highly conductive copper rods sticking up in the air. "Bonded" to that rod is a big, fat copper wire that runs on the outside of the house and directly down to the ground where it is bonded to a big fat grounding rod pounded deep into the ground. The idea is to "shunt" any lightning already heading your way "around" your house and safely into the Earth.

If you have tall trees or power poles towering near and above your house, you don't need a lightning rod on your house. These are used primarily on farmhouses, barns and other buildings sitting out by themselves. In crowded cities, the tallest buildings will have them too.

 

[Mars]

If there are any mixed feeling, it is likely due to a lack of understanding.

Lightning rods on top of houses are used so any lightening Mother Nature aims at your house hits the rod instead of your house. These are not just some highly conductive copper rods sticking up in the air. "Bonded" to that rod is a big, fat copper wire that runs on the outside of the house and directly down to the ground where it is bonded to a big fat grounding rod pounded deep into the ground. The idea is to "shunt" any lightning already heading your way "around" your house and safely into the Earth.

If you have tall trees or power poles towering near and above your house, you don't need a lightning rod on your house. These are used primarily on farmhouses, barns and other buildings sitting out by themselves. In crowded cities, the tallest buildings will have them too.

We have tall trees in the front garden; also, very tall wild cherry and fig tree in the back garden. I love my trees, nice to think about them as our protectors as well.