Controversial keto diets not so good for you after all?

Retro

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It looks like those controversial keto diets like Atkins can do more harm than good after all. Seems that a more traditional diet low in sugar, some meat, not too much, and high in fruit and vegetables is the best for health. Who knew?

A low-carb, high-fat “keto-like” diet may be linked to higher levels of “bad” cholesterol and double the risk of cardiovascular events such as blocked arteries, heart attacks and strokes, according to new research.

“Our study found that regular consumption of a self-reported diet low in carbohydrates and high in fat was associated with increased levels of LDL cholesterol – or “bad” cholesterol – and a higher risk of heart disease,” lead study author Dr. Iulia Iatan with the Healthy Heart Program Prevention Clinic, St. Paul’s Hospital and University of British Columbia’s Centre for Heart Lung Innovation in Vancouver, Canada, said in a news release.

“This study provides an important contribution to the scientific literature, and suggests the harms outweigh the benefits,” said Christopher Gardner, a research professor of medicine at the Stanford Prevention Research Center who has conducted clinical trials on the keto diet.

 

Tiffany

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Food in general can be helpful or harmful, definitely. Moderation in what you eat has always been a better option, rather then be completely carnivore or totally vegan. All forms of "diets" can be dangerous too, depending on your understanding of the way of eating for that "diet" or your actual body health and needs. Believe me, I know, most foods are not my friend. It gets more difficult as I get older to constantly figure out what is best for me "moi"....not what's best for the hive. That's the key, listen to your body. I do agree, sugar is a bad health driver and creates that metabolic syndrome of pre-diabetes eventually.
 

Mars

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@Retro. Totally agree; and please let us not forget that the (in)famous Dr Robert Atkins had an episode of cardiac arrest the year before his death, and he had a history of heart attacks and congestive heart failure.

At the time of his death, aged 72, this scion of health had weighed a whopping 258 pounds. That is 117kg. That is a lot!
This begs the question: did he die as a result of a 'slip on the ice'(official version), or as a result of something he ate....
So yes, what he advocated was bad. The "Atkins Nutritionals, Inc." was founded by him in order to promote the low-carbohydrate packaged foods of the Atkins diet. Looks like the good doctor was also a good grocer.

IMHO, the Keto diet, which forces your body to stay in perpetual ketosis, is even more harmful.
And let's face it, keto diet is now all the rage, just as the Atkins diet was at the time.
What are the long-term effects of the keto diet? No one knows, not yet....One thing is for sure, money is made by the bucketful selling this to the hopefuls.

@Tiffany. Yes, this was always my belief as well, that all forms of 'diet' can be dangerous and ultimately, useless.

It is true that, as you said, as we age, the demand of our body for its everyday functioning does alter. We could get away with a midnight pizza or potato chips (ahhhh, loved those....) when we were young, but as the years march on, we don't quite get away with it that easily. Our body's needs are modified, become more intolerant to dietary transgressions.
I am a firm believer in eating good, wholesome, unprocessed food. You can call it the Mediterranean, Okinawan, Blue zone diet, call it what you want. Basically it is a varied diet including fruit, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, seeds, and dairy. I think unless one is lactose intolerant, or has other gastrointestinal problems, dairy should not be demonized. Neither should the innocent little egg be demonized. I just make sure the both, eggs and milk, are organic: the animals didn't suffer, were fed wholesome food, and were not stuffed with antibiotics and growth hormones.
 

Arizona

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The research backs the Mediterranean diet or eating habits the most. It is mostly plant-based but includes some dairy (traditionally Greek yogurt or feta cheese and eggs), salmon, etc.

And many elderly Asian people attest to the value of other traditional diets, including those that include carbs like rice. So to add to what Mars said: https://www.bluezones.com/2017/05/okinawa-diet-eating-living-100/

It can be good to be partially on a keto diet (a "half ass" approach) in that increasing protein content to some moderate degree can help people eat healthier:


But a negative point about traditional/strict keto (in the "you'll just be thin for your casket" category):


"The weight loss comes primarily from water," said Kathleen Zelman, a spokeswoman for the American Dietetic Association, among Atkins' critics over the years. "But you can also burn muscle, and body protein can be in the form of muscle -- your heart muscle."
 
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Arizona

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This has all been very educational. I never really learned about the Okinawan diet (before Mars mentioned it), and I always wondered about the purple sweet potatoes at the Asian markets:

 

Tiffany

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@Retro. Totally agree; and please let us not forget that the (in)famous Dr Robert Atkins had an episode of cardiac arrest the year before his death, and he had a history of heart attacks and congestive heart failure.

At the time of his death, aged 72, this scion of health had weighed a whopping 258 pounds. That is 117kg. That is a lot!
This begs the question: did he die as a result of a 'slip on the ice'(official version), or as a result of something he ate....
So yes, what he advocated was bad. The "Atkins Nutritionals, Inc." was founded by him in order to promote the low-carbohydrate packaged foods of the Atkins diet. Looks like the good doctor was also a good grocer.

IMHO, the Keto diet, which forces your body to stay in perpetual ketosis, is even more harmful.
And let's face it, keto diet is now all the rage, just as the Atkins diet was at the time.
What are the long-term effects of the keto diet? No one knows, not yet....One thing is for sure, money is made by the bucketful selling this to the hopefuls.

@Tiffany. Yes, this was always my belief as well, that all forms of 'diet' can be dangerous and ultimately, useless.

It is true that, as you said, as we age, the demand of our body for its everyday functioning does alter. We could get away with a midnight pizza or potato chips (ahhhh, loved those....) when we were young, but as the years march on, we don't quite get away with it that easily. Our body's needs are modified, become more intolerant to dietary transgressions.
I am a firm believer in eating good, wholesome, unprocessed food. You can call it the Mediterranean, Okinawan, Blue zone diet, call it what you want. Basically it is a varied diet including fruit, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, seeds, and dairy. I think unless one is lactose intolerant, or has other gastrointestinal problems, dairy should not be demonized. Neither should the innocent little egg be demonized. I just make sure the both, eggs and milk, are organic: the animals didn't suffer, were fed wholesome food, and were not stuffed with antibiotics and growth hormones.

Another problem with keto that no one seems to talk about is that when you attempt a keto diet, you are asking certain organs to perform differently to manage the high fat content you are taking in. For example, your gall bladder has to be able to produce enough bile to be able to digest the heavy fats. If you already have a compromised gall bladder that maybe you didn't know, now you will know, because your gall bladder and liver will no longer be able to help you digest the heavy fats and you can soon get yourself into serious digestive distress and perhaps permanent damage. Taking bile salts is a solution for those with gall bladder issues or those that have lost their gall bladder, if it becomes necessary with each meal because of higher fat content, if needed.

Yes, aging is indeed problematic because, as my husband would say, we now have "used parts" and the "machinery" doesn't work the same because of illness, too many antibiotics through your lifetime, and more concerning with age, we don't produce enough enzymes to properly digest foods like we used too. So when you ask your body to digest a lot of the same food, like keto or carnivore, those foods are hard to digest. Salad, kale and cruciferous vegetables are not easy to digest either unless you are one of the lucky people with a hardy digestive track. I've read many times juice your vegetables and eat your fruit. I don't do either, because I can't eat from those food groups....sigh.

There are pitfalls to an all vegan diet too and the counter argument to that is vegan's don't get enough protein. I was vegan for a long time and it proved to be my undoing, which highlights the point of a good balanced diet. I insure my protein intake by taking an amino acid profile supplement every day. You absorb all of the protein without it becoming a carbohydrate. That's another discussion for another day in making sure the protein you are taking in with your meal remains protein and doesn't change to a carbohydrate.

Eggs are a perfect food....well balanced and you can do so much with an egg...just a little imagination ;)
 

Tiffany

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This has all been very educational. I never really learned about the Okinawan diet (before Mars mentioned it), and I always wondered about the purple sweet potatoes at the Asian markets:


The purple sweet potatoes are really good. We get them when we see them at Whole Foods. The inside of the potato is rather yellow. It does have a slightly different taste rather then the standard sweet potato. I'd like sweet potato fries right now.
Beans on whole wheat toast for a healthy breakfast:


View attachment 1179

Southwestern-stuffed sweet potato (from the same article):

View attachment 1180

Quoting you because these pictures of these great meals looked so yummy! ;)
 

Retro

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Looks like the good doctor was also a good grocer.
Haha love it! 🤣

@Arizona yer making me hungry with those delicious pictures! Please, no more temptation!

@Tiffany you clearly know your nutritrion, much better than I do. I always thought a purely vegetarian or vegan diet wasn't so good for you, since we've evolved to eat meat and our bodies need the proteins from it and it's good to hear that confirmed. Of course, what our bodies don't need are large amounts of red meat all the time which cause health problems, too. The usual moderation and variety seems to apply here, especially getting in some oily fish once in a while.

I didn't know that stuff about the gall bladder and aging, in particular.
 

CyberGeek

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It looks like those controversial keto diets like Atkins can do more harm than good after all. Seems that a more traditional diet low in sugar, some meat, not too much, and high in fruit and vegetables is the best for health. Who knew?



Does this not depend on saturated vs unsaturated fat?
 

Mars

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Does this not depend on saturated vs unsaturated fat?
Generally speaking, saturated fats are the bad guys, (red meat is one) unsaturated fats are actually good for you, the best is extra virgin olive oil.
But even if you only stick with the 'good' fats, a keto diet is, in my opinion, not advisable.
Carbs are not "bad". Beans, legumes, wholewheat, are all good wholesome foods, rich in vitamins and minerals.
The secret of a healthy diet is actually not a secret at all: the key word is variety.
 

Tiffany

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I'm still on the fence about saturated fats as it's still in research and finally those researching are questioning earlier data and studies. This article still recommends the diet that @Mars suggests.


I agree, too much of anything can't be good. For example, if you eat a high amount of garlic for days, what might happen? Too much garlic will permeate through your skin and you might just scare your friends away. But really, what is the garlic doing to you? Garlic is a natural blood thinner, without going into the metabolic details of how garlic might affect your blood, you can only imagine the outcome if this person might have with an diagnosed blood disorder. Same for ginseng, which is also a blood thinner. There are lots of foods, that when over used can be dangerous. Which always brings us back to moderation and a good food rotation diet.

The other consideration in "fats" is what fats are you eating the most of? I have moved away from all vegetable oils, with exception of olive oil or avocado oil. Olive Oil, I use sparingly, and only "dress" my food with olive oil after it's cooked. Oils have a "smoke point" to which after you've heated them beyond their "smoke point" now they become carcinogenic. The main fat I use is organic butter which is pivotal to your digestive needs with the natural ingredient of butyric acid.


Butyric acid is a saturated short-chain fatty acid found in butter
 

CyberGeek

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Generally speaking, saturated fats are the bad guys, (red meat is one) unsaturated fats are actually good for you, the best is extra virgin olive oil.
But even if you only stick with the 'good' fats, a keto diet is, in my opinion, not advisable.
Carbs are not "bad". Beans, legumes, wholewheat, are all good wholesome foods, rich in vitamins and minerals.
The secret of a healthy diet is actually not a secret at all: the key word is variety.
Thanks for sharing! I know unsaturated fats are healthy. Myth about eggs debunked!
As for saturated fats, a common myth is all saturated fats are unhealthy; studies unveiled that dairy fats are actually healthy for you as are the fats in coconut oil.

With respect to a keto diet consisting of only unsaturated fats, hmm, interesting, may have a read up on it.
 

Tiffany

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Keto has some value with fighting cancer. It's been well documented that getting into ketosis can help shrink cancerous tumors. I'm still a fan of balance, however, since food is the principle attribute of wellness or can be the cause of making us ill, I agree with @aussiefooty that balance is the key to good health.
 

Mars

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All diets have flaws in them.
Some of them are stupid.
Keto diets sound like you have to use a drug in the food. no thanks.
i'll stick with a balanced diet.
Definitely, a balanced diet rules!
In fact, forget about "Diet". Just eat good, wholesome food; fruit, vegetables, nuts, seeds, stay away from red meat (or better, no meat at all....but I realise that is not for everybody), eggs, dairy.
Believe me, you eat this good stuff, every day, for a 100 years? you'll live a long time🙃
 

aussiefooty

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Keto has some value with fighting cancer. It's been well documented that getting into ketosis can help shrink cancerous tumors. I'm still a fan of balance, however, since food is the principle attribute of wellness or can be the cause of making us ill, I agree with @aussiefooty that balance is the key to good health.
Have heard that about it fighting cancer.
I don't believe most of those studies.
What i've noticed is the rise in stomach and colon cancers.
people drink diet softdrink that has laxatives in it to make people get the runs.
sugarfree items are not sugar free
 

Mars

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Have heard that about it fighting cancer.
I don't believe most of those studies.
What i've noticed is the rise in stomach and colon cancers.
people drink diet softdrink that has laxatives in it to make people get the runs.
sugarfree items are not sugar free
Yes, unlike healthy cells, cancer cells cannot use ketone bodies efficiently; but those damn cells still find their sneaky way to metastasize.
It is true that research is ongoing, testing the efficacy of ketone supplementation, in mice.
Keto diet is restrictive, and carbs are demonized, which is totally wrong. Carbs are not the enemy; the wholesome carbs are friends. The wrong carbs are the enemy and they do inflict harm.
Sugar free foodstuffs are often loaded with fats and salt and artificial sweeteners, and are a no-no in my book.
 

aussiefooty

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It sounds like one of disgraced chef pete evans scams to me - this keto diet.
I say disgraced because he gives out misinformation on vaccines and is a known cooker.
 

wolfdeer

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I have a few family members who are on the keto diet and it seems like all they eat is dairy. That'd be the cause of clogged arteries in some cases.
 

Tiffany

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Keto diets like vegetarian diets require a lot of study if you decide to delve into either, otherwise you will stick to certain foods believing that's the only foods to eat. I went vegan many years ago and it was almost my undoing.

Balance for sure!
 

aussiefooty

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definitely prefer the balanced diet.
I use suppilments from a nutricianist if i can't get what i want.
sometimes it just helps with things like weight loss.
 

Tiffany

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I use supplements too, and they play a very important roll in keeping me well by supporting the areas where I'm usually weak in what my diet can't provide.
 
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