The Climate Change Thread

[Retro]

And of course, Putin's lousy war is putting a spanner in climate change mitigation efforts. Think of the sabotaging of the gas pipelines the other month which released so much methane, a much more potent greenhouse gas.

That's the problem Tiffs, the world isn't united, too much short termism, self interest and greed, plus mad tirants like Putin screw it up even further.

 

[Mars]

@Retro@Tiffany I find this so terribly depressing. It is like we see our little planet turning into a corpse, and we, I mean the people who care, we are impotent to do anything about it. It is the ugly face of Mammon, greed just greed, endless greed.
It feels my heart with hatred towards the BRIC countries, towards this spawn of Satan over there in Russia.
And I do not like that feeling.

 

[Tiffany]

@Retro "Short termism, good way to put it! High levels of "all about me" countries that could care less about how what they do to the environment affects the rest of the world.

@Mars I totally understand how you feel, your frustrations and fears. It is greed, the need for world dominance on a grand scale, like Hitler, Mao, et al. As much as I have studied history, I'm still stunned that our human world still produces these tyrants without any care for the world and humanity.

 

[Mars]

@Tiffany As you say, history repeats itself. Basically, nothing has changed; only now, the robbing and bare faced lying are done on a grand scale, because of the technological advances at our disposition.
Attila the Hun had robbed and pillaged, and so does that Russian derelict now. Only it is all done on a massive scale, with so many victims, so many.

 

[live627]

-sigh- two Just Stop Oil protestors were at the National Gallery, threw a can of tomato soup over Van Gogh’s The Sunflowers then glued themselves to the wall in protest.

(The painting is fine, btw, it’s behind glass though “minor damage to the frame”.)

I get the desire, perhaps even the need, to protest but this is not how to win friends and influence people to your cause.

Cannot ignore the role of the main stream media in scaring people.

 

[Mars]

@Arantor...... "I get the desire, perhaps even the need, to protest but this is not how to win friends and influence people to your cause."
I totally agree with you. There is never an excuse that justifies this kind of vandalism.
This action of ignoramuses amounts to sacrilege: to aim to destroy a unique work of art, why? bloody hothead idiots.

I am all for our beautiful planet, I mourn its destruction, but I would still stick those idiots in a cell to let them cool off.
@ Live627. The media reported it, but it is hardly the media's fault that the deed was done, and I don't see why they shouldn't have reported it, and made a big deal of it. It IS a big deal!

 

[Tiffany]

Cannot ignore the role of the main stream media in scaring people.

Indeed, all drama, all the time 24/7. As I've said so many times, just give me news updates, no drama and I'll do my research on the topic as long as I can get to it and the information is not buried intentionally.

 

[Retro]

Cannot ignore the role of the main stream media in scaring people.

It depends which outlets one reads. For example, out of the British ones,

Good: The Guardian, The Independent, BBC (depends, but mostly ok)

Bad: The Daily Mail, The Daily Express, The TeleTorygraph

 

[Arantor]

BBC (depends, but mostly ok)

Unless Brexit is involved in which case every possible avoidance of the word and any connotation thereof will be taken.

 

[Retro]

Unless Brexit is involved in which case every possible avoidance of the word and any connotation thereof will be taken.

Yeah, you got that right, I've seen that myself. Having said that, the tide is beginning to change. Just check out this video article:

Ros Atkins on... Brexit and the UK economy

Rishi Sunak says he wants to build an economy that embraces the opportunities of Brexit.

www.bbc.co.uk

It doesn't hold back and I've seen other stuff like this recently from them. I'm a bit - pleasantly - surprised at this, because our Boris planted one of his brexity stooges right at the top of the corporation quite some time ago.

And then there are these two from A Different Bias's Phil Moorhouse, among others, so there's hope yet. I think the brexit lie is finally starting to unravel. Far too late by some metrics as so much permanent damage has already been done with more to come, but better late than never. Don't lose hope!

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[Retro]

Climate change turns out to be happening faster, much less predictably and more violently than the simulations predict. There's no smooth changes here. Very depressing.

Why scientists are using the word scary over the climate crisis

The former BBC environment analyst Roger Harrabin has spent his career talking to scientists. Now they’re telling him they’re scared of what they’re seeing

www.theguardian.com

 

[Tiffany]

There's a lot to take in on this article.

“So, land warms more than oceans; higher latitudes warm more than low latitudes, especially in winter; the warming is non-uniform which means weather changes; air that is 6C warmer can hold 50% more water and generally does, so rain storms are that much stronger; sea level rise means storm surges are more devastating.

“I have been surprised and alarmed at the record temperatures and floods we have seen in many places around the world – with only 1.1C warming [globally].”

I'm going to have to process this a bit. Land is generally warmer then oceans, but SST's (sea surface temperatures) are actually affected by more then just the atmospheric weather and to presume that a higher peaked mountain is warmer then a lower altitude is also debatable based on the topography locale and location of the peak itself. For example, there is a large mountain range that runs through the middle of Puerto Rico. The northern side of PR is rainy and tropical, during the rainy season, but also has more yearly precipitation compared to the south side of this mountain range. The south side of PR, has some desert like areas, because the mountains actually prevent the precipitation from falling in this southern region. The reason why you hear about mudslides in PR, on the south and south west side of the island is because it's generally drier. Torrential hard rains in this region can cause immediate flooding and the dry soil can't absorb the water fast enough,

Article mentions heat domes.....Forestry care and fires are another challenge. California's principle problem with fires is their government doesn't take care of the forestry maintenance year round as they should, for lack of budget, desire or care. Unfortunately, you do have to take care of forest areas close to neighborhoods and break down overgrowth/yearly growth and Cali government doesn't keep up like Oklahoma. Same for Cali home owners. They do have laws about trees in Cali, but people actually have to follow them and maintain the number of trees they have. Oklahoma has other issues, like severe weather outbreaks and lightning strikes, where they do have to keep up for overall safety on the highways and forests.

I believe I went on a rabbit trail. I guess the point I'm making is weather is not only global but regional, afected by oceans, mountain regions and desert. A meteorologist historian would have to study each region's weather history and compile graphs of this history as far back as available, which then to me would be really interesting.....to really see the climate's changing progress over the past century by region and how each region affected the climate globally. I'm sure it exists somewhere though...just haven't seen it yet.

 

[Retro]

The weather continues to break warming records. It currently feels comfortable, but if it was summer now, we'd be baking with 40C temperatures again.

Warmest Armistice Day ever for England, Scotland and Northern Ireland

Three UK countries ‘way above where we should be for this time of year’ says Met Office forecaster

www.theguardian.com

 

[Retro]

Here are some odd side effects of climate change, including global dimming.

Birdsong, snowdrops, blossom and midge bites - these are not things you associate with November in the north of England.

But these are just some of the milder side effects of a warming world.

As well as fuelling deadly floods and drought, rising temperatures are cited as a cause of spontaneous explosions of Siberian permafrost, mustard shortages and the planet becoming dimmer.

Many of the impacts of climate change are devastating. Some are weird.

Climate change: Dimming Earth, mustard shortages and other odd side-effects

Changes to our planet's shine is just one of the stranger side effects of rising temperatures.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Tiffany]

I'd like to know more about the Siberian permafrost and giant craters forming. Interesting.

 

[Retro]

Resorting to desperate measures to slow climate change, it looks like too little too late.

@Arantor indeed, why would anyone want to bring a child into this world at this time?

Of course, if everyone thought like this, then the human race would die out through lack of breeding in about 100 years and the end would be very messy and unpleasant for the last few survivors. What a way to go.

Melting point: could ‘cloud brightening’ slow the thawing of the Arctic?

The climate emergency is prompting some scientists to suggest extreme measures. But whether you call it geoengineering or biomimicry, others feel interfering with nature will have too high a cost

www.theguardian.com

 

[Tiffany]

Resorting to desperate measures to slow climate change, it looks like too little too late.

@Arantor indeed, why would anyone want to bring a child into this world at this time?

Of course, if everyone thought like this, then the human race would die out through lack of breeding in about 100 years and the end would be very messy and unpleasant for the last few survivors. What a way to go.

Melting point: could ‘cloud brightening’ slow the thawing of the Arctic?

The climate emergency is prompting some scientists to suggest extreme measures. But whether you call it geoengineering or biomimicry, others feel interfering with nature will have too high a cost

www.theguardian.com

Thanks for this link! I have it opened to read today.

 

[Tiffany]

I had a chance to finally read your above link on Melting Point in post #191

A recent study led by Wake Smith, a lecturer at Yale University on venture capital and private equity, looked at the financial and logistical implications of aerosol injection deployment. The cost was estimated to be $11bn a year – no small sum, but a tiny fraction of the costs of dealing with damage done by climate change. The study suggested that 175,000 flights a year would be needed to release a cloud of microscopic sulphur dioxide particles at an altitude of 43,000ft and latitude of 60 degrees in each hemisphere.

Such a massive air mobilisation would in turn release millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, but it would also lead, say the models, to a 2C drop in temperature at the polar regions. Smith acknowledges that it’s a temporary measure that treats the symptoms rather than the underlying disease. “It’s aspirin, not penicillin,” he’s said. “It’s not a substitute for decarbonisation.”

The beauty of science is you start out small, prove your hypothesis and then move forward to create your experiment on a larger scale. At least they were able to estimate what it would take on a large scale to release sulphur dioxide by how many planes needed and the cost. The other consideration were the indigenous people and their health. The polar ice traps everything. If they started this and it worked, they would have to continue this process to prevent unstable amounts of sulphur dioxide from affecting the people. Perhaps a better brightening method will evolve in decades to come?

 

[Retro]

There's nothing green about Rishi Sunak's policies. He clearly doesn't care about the environment.

Cumbria coalmine approval shows Sunak does not care if he is seen as green

PM’s commitment to green targets questioned as top climate adviser calls decision ‘absolutely indefensible’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Arantor]

Well, there’s money to be made, so naturally that takes precedence.

 

[Retro]

Profits Before People. Great strat and handy three word slogan to go with it, too.

 

[Arantor]

You are secrettory12 on Twitter and I claim my £5.

(https://twitter.com/secrettory12 is absolutely worth reading if nothing else for the "Papua New Guinea's London Correspondant" articles and the occasional "leaked WhatsApp conversations". Sadly a number of people don't understand what satire is any more.)

 

[Tiffany]

Oldest DNA reveals two-million-year-old lost world

Genetic material extracted from soil has revealed the ancient plants and animals of North Greenland.

www.bbc.com

Today the area in North Greenland is a polar desert, but the genetic material, extracted from soil, has uncovered a rich array of plants and animals.
The scientists found genetic traces of elephant-like mastodons, reindeer and geese that roamed among birch and poplar trees, and of marine life including horseshoe crabs and algae.

Jurassic Park anyone? This is always in the back of my mind as to what's out there waiting in the ice, when scientists refer to climate change, which used to be called global warming and before that global cooling and before that, I don't know because I was trying to grow up and be a kid.

Two million years ago, North Greenland was much warmer than it is now. The average annual temperatures were about 11-19C hotter.

Point is, there's always something lying in the permafrost, just waiting to be revealed like the Zombie Virus found in Russia recently.

Really fascinating article on the DNA that was found in North Greenland.

 

[Retro]

It's currently a freezing -3C outside and there's heavy frost on the ground. I demand to know why global warming isn't doing its job!

 

[Arantor]

Snowing here, or trying to.