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Bionic_Rooster
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Not according to my wife
The Climate Change Thread
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Arantor
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I hate to point out the possibility as it occurs to me that it might get you in trouble, but I feel compelled to state it anyway.
Is it possible (never mind likelihood, simply the possibility) that your wife may, on this issue, not be entirely correct?
Is it possible (never mind likelihood, simply the possibility) that your wife may, on this issue, not be entirely correct?
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@Bionic_Rooster There is wide agreement between scientists that the level of climate change we're seeing, specifically temperature rise, is being caused by man. In fact, the earth was supposed to be entering another mini ice age, but the opposite is happening, which helps to give some idea of the severity of this problem. Denying it is just conspiracy theory.
It's also unfortunately true that governments and green lobbies are using climate change to foist unreasonable restrictions on their citizens. There's always corruption wherever one turns. I think it's this that's really bothering you, as it should and it bothers me too, greatly.
It's also unfortunately true that governments and green lobbies are using climate change to foist unreasonable restrictions on their citizens. There's always corruption wherever one turns. I think it's this that's really bothering you, as it should and it bothers me too, greatly.
This one comment tells me that you have no clue about this subject, since the moon is actually moving away from the earth at about 4cm per year, not getting closer.
Why the Moon is getting further away from Earth
The Moon is slowly moving further away from Earth but its movement will take billions of years to affect the planet, writes a leading space scientist.
www.bbc.co.uk
Arantor
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It doesn’t really take much to observe that the world has been changing for the last couple of hundred years in general towards forms of society that prize production over people at any cost. It’s all been downhill since the industrial revolution, and the fact that it took laws to be enacted to prevent infants from being made to work for many hours of the day should tell us something about ourselves.
The world is too good for us. The fact we’re furiously scrambling as a species to pretend it isn’t in dire straits to me says so much.
The world is too good for us. The fact we’re furiously scrambling as a species to pretend it isn’t in dire straits to me says so much.
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@Arantor Agreed and what you've just explained can be summarised as mankind treating this planet like an infinite resource, which it most definitely isn't. It would be more accurate to think of it as an unpowered spaceship with a great deal of resources that should be harboured carefully, not raped and pillaged like mankind is doing.
I love watching sci-fi and the ultra modern future that it imagines. Unfortunately, climate change threatens to drag as backwards as our infrastructure and lives are destroyed by it. Oh and wars. Dumbass wars like Putin's really don't help ffs.
Now, the place where I live really isn't anywhere special and there are much nicer areas to live in. However, in recent years, I've come to appreciate how relatively little climate change has impacted it (it does get pretty hot though, much more than my liking). I'm thinking about things like floods, fires, volcanos and natural disasters in general. It's quite stable here and I hope it stays that way.
I love watching sci-fi and the ultra modern future that it imagines. Unfortunately, climate change threatens to drag as backwards as our infrastructure and lives are destroyed by it. Oh and wars. Dumbass wars like Putin's really don't help ffs.
Now, the place where I live really isn't anywhere special and there are much nicer areas to live in. However, in recent years, I've come to appreciate how relatively little climate change has impacted it (it does get pretty hot though, much more than my liking). I'm thinking about things like floods, fires, volcanos and natural disasters in general. It's quite stable here and I hope it stays that way.
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I believe we can all agree with the following:
1. Take care of our earth and its resources.
2. Climate change- the climate is always changing and as I've listed in my post #10, there's a myriad of reasons that our climate "is" changing, (i.e. our climate can be on a long trajectory of warming or cooling for years to centuries to millennia, which can be affected by all of the conditions I listed in post #10), as well as, the human side of the equation; human's are either abusive to the earth and use mass consumption of resources, or mass produce smog and environmental damage that will affect the stability of the earth over time.
3. Taxation on behalf of "climate change".....no one likes extra taxes, however, because human's have a lazy side, without laws and regulations, humans would likely not think twice about their destruction unless there were some rules or properly taught environmental education in the schools. Texas has signs on every highway, "Don't Mess with Texas", meaning, if you have trash, don't throw it out the window and trash the highways or there will be consequences if you get caught, please properly dispose of it at the next rest stop, home or whatever." I'm fine with rules, love rules, just as long as they are fair rules and taxation has to make sense.
4. The earth is an amazing place and no one region is the same. The pacific has the ring of fire, volcanoes and earthquakes (but really there's earthquakes everywhere 24/7). The north and south pole, very cold. Some continents sitting near the equator are warmer then average and have their hurricanes, tropical cyclones, and rainy seasons. Then you have regions with prairies, fields of wheat, open land with nature's threat of tornado's. Each environment is different requiring different care. The key is "caring" about where you live and taking care of your environment while setting an example for others.
Sorry to sound like a mom....not meant to sound preachy or tree-hugging either. I just like common sense.
1. Take care of our earth and its resources.
2. Climate change- the climate is always changing and as I've listed in my post #10, there's a myriad of reasons that our climate "is" changing, (i.e. our climate can be on a long trajectory of warming or cooling for years to centuries to millennia, which can be affected by all of the conditions I listed in post #10), as well as, the human side of the equation; human's are either abusive to the earth and use mass consumption of resources, or mass produce smog and environmental damage that will affect the stability of the earth over time.
3. Taxation on behalf of "climate change".....no one likes extra taxes, however, because human's have a lazy side, without laws and regulations, humans would likely not think twice about their destruction unless there were some rules or properly taught environmental education in the schools. Texas has signs on every highway, "Don't Mess with Texas", meaning, if you have trash, don't throw it out the window and trash the highways or there will be consequences if you get caught, please properly dispose of it at the next rest stop, home or whatever." I'm fine with rules, love rules, just as long as they are fair rules and taxation has to make sense.
4. The earth is an amazing place and no one region is the same. The pacific has the ring of fire, volcanoes and earthquakes (but really there's earthquakes everywhere 24/7). The north and south pole, very cold. Some continents sitting near the equator are warmer then average and have their hurricanes, tropical cyclones, and rainy seasons. Then you have regions with prairies, fields of wheat, open land with nature's threat of tornado's. Each environment is different requiring different care. The key is "caring" about where you live and taking care of your environment while setting an example for others.
Sorry to sound like a mom....not meant to sound preachy or tree-hugging either. I just like common sense.
Arantor
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The sad part is that we had an opportunity to make real change - the photography that came out during the middle of 2020 when the world basically went into lockdown to prevent Covid spread, photography of smog-laden cities that for the first time in years (or even decades) had clear skies.
We had that opportunity and we let it go when we decided we had to return to how the world was in the before times.
We had that opportunity and we let it go when we decided we had to return to how the world was in the before times.
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@Retro Why thank you
@Arantor I do recall the aerial photography during the pandemic. My husband and I have talked about this often before the pandemic ever started, in particular; online college options. I believe there are a few businesses that are still allowing work from home. The right personality would get so much more done from home, rather than at work. I can testify to that because we own a business, and there's a lot of chit-chat that goes on in the break room
@Arantor I do recall the aerial photography during the pandemic. My husband and I have talked about this often before the pandemic ever started, in particular; online college options. I believe there are a few businesses that are still allowing work from home. The right personality would get so much more done from home, rather than at work. I can testify to that because we own a business, and there's a lot of chit-chat that goes on in the break room
No worries Tiffany, you do not sound mumsy or preachy or tree-hugging , what you say makes sense.I believe we can all agree with the following:.........
Sorry to sound like a mom....not meant to sound preachy or tree-hugging either. I just like common sense.
P.S. and what's wrong with tree hugging, anyway? I love trees.
No surprises there, people just don't see that Nature is fighting back....Ebola, Covid, Monkey Pox...what next.
All those zoonotic diseases; You could say the animals are fighting back.
Arantor
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I can't speak for the US - but here in the UK, the pushback against 'I've had WFH for two years, I like it, don't make me come into the office more than that' has been surprising.
There are companies who are, just now, trying to organise a 'return to the office' and seem to be genuinely surprised that their people don't want to, but then it becomes accusations of being lazy. There is even a government minister who has been going around his colleagues' desks and leaving them passive-aggressive notes about when they will be returning to the office. Then again this is also a government minister who does not have a computer on his desk, so I'm not clear what actual work he could possibly doing. (Oh, wait, he is the minister for Brexit Opportunities, and Government Efficiency. He doesn't need a computer to do any work on either of these.)
I have to admit I made some comment quite early on in 2020 about this. I don't know how much stock I put in Lovelock's Gaia theory but it does feel more and more like it might have some substance. Or maybe that's just my childhood calling to rewatch Captain Planet and the Planeteers.
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Bionic_Rooster
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Before you jump the gun and blindly accuse someone of not knowing what they are talking about, consider alternate theories@Bionic_Rooster There is wide agreement between scientists that the level of climate change we're seeing, specifically temperature rise, is being caused by man. In fact, the earth was supposed to be entering another mini ice age, but the opposite is happening, which helps to give some idea of the severity of this problem. Denying it is just conspiracy theory.
It's also unfortunately true that governments and green lobbies are using climate change to foist unreasonable restrictions on their citizens. There's always corruption wherever one turns. I think it's this that's really bothering you, as it should and it bothers me too, greatly.
This one comment tells me that you have no clue about this subject, since the moon is actually moving away from the earth at about 4cm per year, not getting closer.
Why the Moon is getting further away from Earth
The Moon is slowly moving further away from Earth but its movement will take billions of years to affect the planet, writes a leading space scientist.www.bbc.co.uk
Quoted from
The moon is coming down to Earth… eventually
The current drought for planetary observing continues with everything but Mars either too close to the sun or the horizon. So, this month’s topic will be some esoteric facts about our moon.
www.coastreporter.net
The moon will move ever closer until it reaches 18,470 km (11,470 miles) above the Earth, a point known as the Roche limit. This is the radius inside which the tidal forces pulling objects apart exceed their mutual attraction due to gravity.
Yes an ice age is coming but only after there is enough pollutants in the air that will cause global warming, then after a time the earths inability to receive heat from the sun will cause it to cool off thus creating an ice age.
Global warming despite what money grubbing scientist and governments tell us, is a natural phenomenon. For thousands of year the African continent had a plush vegetation. Global warming caused by volcanic activity, turned most if not all of it into a waste land. Australia like wise.
Unacceptable, I came here by invitation to share ideas and opinions. Not to be insulted because your view/opinion is different.
Arantor
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Whoa, whoa, whoa.
You're both right - from a certain point of view.
Yes, the moon is currently moving further and further away from the Earth. And yes, there will come a time that it will start to come back closer when the Roche limit is approached.
However - and here's the part that the article curiously fails to cover... is a timescale on that. A cursory reading of the article doesn't tell you when, or why, the Roche limit will be reached. But I can tell you this - the answer is that once the Sun starts expanding because all the hydrogen is burned up and it starts moving onto the larger, heavier elements (the red giant phase), the Earth and the moon will be nearer to the Sun.
The result of this is increased gravity on the orbit, causing a drag factor that will bring the moon inside the Roche limit and it'll start coming closer again.
However that's not for a timescale we can even conceive of; that's hundreds of thousands of years in the future, if not millions. That's... the entirety of humanity, multiple times over before that happens.
So while yes, it's technically true (based on our current science) that the moon is going to come back, it's not going to do so in any timescale we can begin to think too hard about, and that for all our intents and purposes the moon is simply going to continue to move away. The article simply outlines that the author can't remember if this would happen before or after the Earth would be consumed by the Sun's expansion phase in 5 million years time. (Answer: before. But, relatively speaking, not by a lot.)
I can see how the knee-jerk reaction came about because it seems that that article is one of the only sources online actually talking about it and - at a first read, it doesn't actually read that well-informed. So I did a bit more digging to see if I could find more authoritative/corraborating sources (with equations and data and timelines and things like that) but there is a distinct lack of it. So it could easily appear a little bit tin-foil hat if not careful - even though the article *is* right.
You're both right - from a certain point of view.
Yes, the moon is currently moving further and further away from the Earth. And yes, there will come a time that it will start to come back closer when the Roche limit is approached.
However - and here's the part that the article curiously fails to cover... is a timescale on that. A cursory reading of the article doesn't tell you when, or why, the Roche limit will be reached. But I can tell you this - the answer is that once the Sun starts expanding because all the hydrogen is burned up and it starts moving onto the larger, heavier elements (the red giant phase), the Earth and the moon will be nearer to the Sun.
The result of this is increased gravity on the orbit, causing a drag factor that will bring the moon inside the Roche limit and it'll start coming closer again.
However that's not for a timescale we can even conceive of; that's hundreds of thousands of years in the future, if not millions. That's... the entirety of humanity, multiple times over before that happens.
So while yes, it's technically true (based on our current science) that the moon is going to come back, it's not going to do so in any timescale we can begin to think too hard about, and that for all our intents and purposes the moon is simply going to continue to move away. The article simply outlines that the author can't remember if this would happen before or after the Earth would be consumed by the Sun's expansion phase in 5 million years time. (Answer: before. But, relatively speaking, not by a lot.)
I can see how the knee-jerk reaction came about because it seems that that article is one of the only sources online actually talking about it and - at a first read, it doesn't actually read that well-informed. So I did a bit more digging to see if I could find more authoritative/corraborating sources (with equations and data and timelines and things like that) but there is a distinct lack of it. So it could easily appear a little bit tin-foil hat if not careful - even though the article *is* right.
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@Bionic_Rooster No need to feel insulted, I'm only stating facts. And I'm sorry if you think that's an insult too, but it isn't, it's just the truth.
The bit you're missing from that rather interesting article, is that the moon will spiral back to earth in billions of years time once it's moved a considerable distance from earth and the sun will have likely started expanding into a red giant, so as far as we're concerned for our lifetimes, let's say for the next 100 years for convenience, the moon is moving away and will always move away, hence the scenario you created can't happen. Even the article title has "...eventually" in it to indicate a long time. Hence, when you say:
You're clearly wrong about a very basic fact and that's what I'm basing my comment on. At least you didn't get that from a conspiracy website, which I'm relieved to see.
Now, as far as the ice age, the earth was meant to be entering it "anytime now" according to some science articles I read a few years ago from reputable websites, so the fact it's warming up at such a fast rate instead makes the global warming problem even worse.
The warming we're seeing today is unfortunately man made. There's load of scientific evidence for it now, there's no denying that anymore, which you seem to be doing. Yes, I could try and hunt down official scientist statements and studies, but would that really convince you anyway?
EDIT: damnit @Arantor you pipped me to it!
From the article, it's about 5 billion years from now:
I remember reading about the moon spiraling back in too, in a separate article. Makes the whole spiraling out thing feel rather pointless doesn't it, lol. The fact it will end up getting destroyed is the cherry on top. In fact, at that point, the earth's surface will be a sea of molten lava from the huge tidal forces acting on it and completely uninhabitable, so if there's any future life then, it had better get out, or perish. Or move the moon and the earth. Who knows what technology would exist then.
The bit you're missing from that rather interesting article, is that the moon will spiral back to earth in billions of years time once it's moved a considerable distance from earth and the sun will have likely started expanding into a red giant, so as far as we're concerned for our lifetimes, let's say for the next 100 years for convenience, the moon is moving away and will always move away, hence the scenario you created can't happen. Even the article title has "...eventually" in it to indicate a long time. Hence, when you say:
You're clearly wrong about a very basic fact and that's what I'm basing my comment on. At least you didn't get that from a conspiracy website, which I'm relieved to see.
Now, as far as the ice age, the earth was meant to be entering it "anytime now" according to some science articles I read a few years ago from reputable websites, so the fact it's warming up at such a fast rate instead makes the global warming problem even worse.
The warming we're seeing today is unfortunately man made. There's load of scientific evidence for it now, there's no denying that anymore, which you seem to be doing. Yes, I could try and hunt down official scientist statements and studies, but would that really convince you anyway?
EDIT: damnit @Arantor you pipped me to it!
From the article, it's about 5 billion years from now:
I remember reading about the moon spiraling back in too, in a separate article. Makes the whole spiraling out thing feel rather pointless doesn't it, lol. The fact it will end up getting destroyed is the cherry on top. In fact, at that point, the earth's surface will be a sea of molten lava from the huge tidal forces acting on it and completely uninhabitable, so if there's any future life then, it had better get out, or perish. Or move the moon and the earth. Who knows what technology would exist then.
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Climate change is getting more and more serious.
Bonn climate conference: World is "cooked" if we carry on with coal, US says
US climate envoy John Kerry says the war in Ukraine is no excuse to prolong global reliance on coal.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Climate change is getting more and more serious.
Bonn climate conference: World is "cooked" if we carry on with coal, US says
US climate envoy John Kerry says the war in Ukraine is no excuse to prolong global reliance on coal.www.bbc.co.uk
Sooooo...here's my impression. I do agree, that taking care of our earth is tantamount, with that being said, that needs to be an all in commitment from every country on earth. The opposing argument to that is that even if some smaller countries do not conform with green energy, emission standards, carbon footprint, etc. then it's better then not having any commitment at all from the major players to care for the earth's resources.
Here's my additional thought, which I'm basing on experience......In the past two years, Texas suffered substantially in February (2021 & 2022) with significant power loss state wide. Hundreds of people died in both instances. It was discovered in the first power outage, that the electric grid was not provided for with the sufficient amount of fuel, needed to keep the grids working and aside from that a lot of the sub-stations were either poorly maintained or failed during the winter storms. During the first storm, the data that was analyzed concluded that Texas made an error in relying on the wind generators to make up for any power losses. The wind generators, while not a significant amount, were over one-third of where our power was to come from and could not compensate for the power needed during these winter storms. This was a tragic error. In short, and I'm not a scientist, I still believe being able to have access to multiple resources for energy is important, while maybe redundant, but at least if there's a failure in one area, the other can come on line.
I do have personal experience with coal, because my ancestry is from the coal mountains in Pennsylvania. I've heard lots of stories and there's no doubt that coal mining is extremely difficult and black lung can still be a concern with also the risk of collapsed tunnels and trapped miners. I've actually been to the outside of a mine with my dad, cousins and uncle when I was young, shot a .22 rifle which kicked my shoulder back and hurt for days too. When it rains, the streets get dirty, and the smell of sulfur is really strong. I don't favor coal, because I've seen the unhealthy side of it, however, considering the energy crises we are in.... if I was in a city or country where burning coal for heat was possible, then I'd be for it, rather then not having any heat or power, if only for a short time, as well as other fuel choices. I agree we shouldn't use just one resource for power, but still have multiple resources for power and continue to develop plans that make sense where people won't suddenly be without because of poor planning. My daughter and I still have PTSD from both of our winter storms. All of the US is being warned that we may have significant power outages this summer because the month of May was seriously hot and the repairs that were needed to the power stations didn't all get completed in time before the heat arrived. Normally, in May, we still have some nice days. June is turning out to be another hot month, which is not normal, and we are expected to be in the triple digits. I've heard it's due to the drought conditions we are in. The climate is a result of multiple inputs that make up how a season will record it's outcome and there's no doubt we are in an extreme phase of weather. Now I'm watching the tropics.
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Man made global warming continues to wreck our climate.
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More climate change warming globally, sigh.
Europe heatwave breaks multiple June records - BBC Weather
An oppressive heatwave has broken temperature records from the Arctic Circle to North Africa.
www.bbc.co.uk
JimmyNeutron
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I'm afraid of this changing
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Alas, we're in the thick of it now and it's only gonna get worse.I'm afraid of this changing
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Thanks to the heat (and some because of a busy day with people and driving) I have a migraine. It's so flipping hot here, it's just not bearable. We've had no rain since early May. We've had triple digit heat since early June. The is comparably the worst summer I've seen since 2012, and before that was in 1980. If it's the same way through out the year and next year, then I'm going to be really concerned.
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