The second American presidential debate (10 September 2024)

[Retro]

The shit he stated begged to be called out and corrected by somone.

Like babies being aborted after being born. I still can't get over that one. It's even stupider than the injecting bleach gaff.

 

[Retro]

omg, now even the sycophantic Fox News is calling him out on losing that debate! Check out Trump's tantrum and note how he couldn't even spell MSNBC lol.

“This was that first occasion where it wasn’t just a close call,” Cavuto continued on his Fox Business show, Cavuto: Coast to Coast. “It was a lopsided one.”

The damning assessment did not escape Trump’s attention.

“Neil Cavuto, Fox’s Lowest Rated Anchor, is one of the WORST on Television,” the Republican nominee thundered in a post on his Truth Social platform Wednesday. “I actually prefer the losers at CNN and MSDNC!”

Cavuto’s analysis was backed up by multiple polls indicating that viewers thought Trump’s performance—which included pushing false claims about dogs being eaten and his opponents supporting the “execution” of babies after birth—was not a success.

Trump Loses It at Fox Host Who Said He Didn’t Win the Debate: ‘I Actually Prefer the Losers at CNN’

Donald Trump furiously attacked Fox News host Neil Cavuto on Wednesday after the anchor dared to criticize Trump’s debate performance against Kamala Harris.“He had six prior presidential debates to this one,” Cavuto said on Fox Business Network while talking to Bob Cusack, editor-in-chief of The...

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[Retro]

ABC News have now released the video on YouTube. I've updated the first post with the video.

 

[Astro What]

Check out Trump's tantrum and note how he couldn't even spell MSNBC lol.

Actually he didn't spell it incorrectly for what he was trying to imply. DNC = Democratic National Convention, ergo saying they are an extension of the Democratic party. It's one of those things he does regularly.
Trump's ego is not going to let him not do another debate. He's going to get heckled about it constantly as being scared since anyone with any sense knows that he lost that last one "bigly". He won't be able to stand being ridiculed for his fear, even though it is probably the smarter thing for him to do.

 

[Retro]

Oh boy that's even more pathetic than just making a typo in anger.

As far as his ego and a future debate, that's plausible, but it remains to be seen. I'd love to see him get humiliated again. Perhaps this time he would lose it in the way I was hoping...

If it happens, they should keep the conditions the same, but leave the mics on this time to let him make a bigger fool of himself.

 

[Retro]

Just seen this BBC article. Oh well.

Trump rules out another presidential debate against Harris

Two days after the pair's first showdown, the Republican says his Democratic rival only wants a rematch because he won.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Astro What]

Then you have this.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/13/politics/trump-no-debate-rematch-analysis

 

[Retro]

Now we know where the easily manipulated orange moron got his racist dogwhistle from about Haitians eating pets - neo-Nazis. And people want this guy in power? So deluded.

This is how easily they manipulated him:

The day after the presidential debate at which former President Donald Trump spread a false story about Haitian immigrants eating pets in Springfield, Ohio, Christopher Pohlhaus, leader of the national neo-Nazi group Blood Tribe, took to his Telegram channel to take credit.

Pohlhaus, a Marine-turned-tattoo artist known as “Hammer” to his hundreds of followers, wrote Blood Tribe had “pushed Springfield into the public consciousness.”

Members of his hate group agreed. “The president is talking about it now,” a member wrote on Gab, a Twitter-like service popular with extremists. “This is what real power looks like.”

Before Trump, neo-Nazis pushed false claims about Haitians as part of hate campaign

An extremist group that marched in Springfield, Ohio, and demonized Haitian immigrants saw Trump's mention of baseless rumors at the debate as a victory: “This is what real power looks like.”

www.nbcnews.com

 

[data66]

It was an interesting debate. Kamala won. Trump went to the dogs...

 

[live627]

I think Trump is getting tired honestly. He's had pretty much half the country going after him including trying to kill him or wishing he was no longer alive for 5 years. SO there's going to be a breaking point, and Im surprised he hasn't reached it yet. I think that frustration came out when he found out he was in a room with 3 people who were against him generally.

 

[Aerodynamic]

I can't help but laugh at the fact that Biden is now all of a sudden a "supporter" of Trump since the call out by Harris.

And can you blame her? I mean, what has Biden achieved in his time as president? Exactly, nothing.

 

[data66]

I can't help but laugh at the fact that Biden is now all of a sudden a "supporter" of Trump since the call out by Harris.

And can you blame her? I mean, what has Biden achieved in his time as president? Exactly, nothing.

The problem in America has been, and will continue to be, the lack of cooperation between the parties in order to compromise to pass various bills. Over the past several years, or more, it's become more and more a gotcha environment. They used to work together in order for the government to function properly. In order to work for US. We were never meant to be a two party system, yet that's what we are. It's not ideal. Not with them bickering all the time. No president can do much of anything, accomplish much of anything, without Senate and House support.

They stall budgets, kill immigration reform in order to use it for political points, won't pass gun reform (who the hell needs a machine gun, semi-automatic whatever, other than the army?), etc, etc.

Biden has had accomplishments. I'm not listing them here, they are out there and have been reported on various news outlets and can be confirmed. I'm more concerned with this bickering, tit-for-tat, environment that just makes our country less than it could be. We should all be demanding that they work together in order to pass bills and such. Stop the crap and get more done. Learn how to compromise again rather than "playing to the base" theatrics that just leads to a stuck in the mud end result.

 

[Retro]

I can't help but laugh at the fact that Biden is now all of a sudden a "supporter" of Trump since the call out by Harris.

What do you mean that Biden supports Trump? He's quite rightly never had a good word to say about that man.

 

[Tiffany]

@Astro What thanks for all of your clarifying posts and information.

@data66 Well stated, totally agree with you on post #62!

@live627 I'm sure he's completely on the edge.

@Aerodynamic Are you referring to the picture where Biden has a MAGA hat on?

@Retro No way is Biden a Trump supporter, a total snafu picture.

@Geffers Appreciate your contributions, as well.

 

[Retro]

@Retro No way is Biden a Trump supporter, a total snafu picture.

Must be a snafu. I've never seen or heard of that picture before now. I'll bet it's a CGI fake perhaps as Biden would never wear a MAGA hat.

You know, I'm almost tempted to buy one for the notoriety of it. When all this blows over, they'll stop making them and it will start to become a collectors item, eventually as there are millions out there now. For me, it would be a sort of statement saying I was there around the time this was all happening and got involved with it on my forum.

Ah, I'll never buy it, but it could work that way.

 

[Astro What]

The problem in America has been, and will continue to be, the lack of cooperation between the parties in order to compromise to pass various bills.

That is the issue I have. I am a right centrist... and I'm intelligent enough to realize that both parties have to work together for what is good for our nation as a whole.
As once said, the best deal is where neither side gets what they want, but what they can live with.

(who the hell needs a machine gun, semi-automatic whatever, other than the army?), etc, etc.

I can tell you have never had an invasion of hogs tearing up your pastures and property.
With a bolt action, you MAY get 2 out of the 20-40 that are running around. With the semi in .308 you can usually bump that up to around 6-10 depending on what optics you have equipped on it, your skill level and distance.
Generally the full auto is not the choice you want as your accuracy suffers, but semi is the better choice.

What kills me.... what is the difference between this



or this



and this



The top two are "acceptable" to most... but the bottom one isn't because it "looks mean" and is what the military carries.
Ironically.. the middle one is also based upon one that was carried in war.
For years and years it was a well known "truck gun" for land owners to carry that supplanted the Winchester model 94 or a Marlin lever action that used to be carried.

 

[data66]

Sorry @Astro What , we will have to agree to disagree. I would rather someone be inconvenienced murdering hogs than someone be well equipped to murder children at school, or people at the movies, or people on the highway, etc. On one hand, property is damaged, which is bad but can be fixed. On the other, innocent lives lost - which can't be fixed.

 

[data66]

Must be a snafu. I've never seen or heard of that picture before now. I'll bet it's a CGI fake perhaps as Biden would never wear a MAGA hat.

You know, I'm almost tempted to buy one for the notoriety of it. When all this blows over, they'll stop making them and it will start to become a collectors item, eventually as there are millions out there now. For me, it would be a sort of statement saying I was there around the time this was all happening and got involved with it on my forum.

Ah, I'll never buy it, but it could work that way.

My daughter got me a "comma la" shirt. Maybe get one of those .

 

[Astro What]

I would rather someone be inconvenienced murdering hogs than someone be well equipped to murder children at school, or people at the movies, or people on the highway, etc.

The issue is.... in the overall number of deaths, the AR-15 is not a standout weapon used. But it IS the one that is most demonized and sensationalized.
THAT was what those images were showing. EVERY one of them can be equipped with a 20 round magazine easily, and EVERY one of them operates in the same manner. Pull the trigger, gun goes bang and then it loads another round. The ONLY difference between them is the way they look.
I personally have found no real fun in shooting a select fire weapon. You run through the ammo too quickly and your level of accuracy is not as consistent as with slower aimed fire.

If we are going to start basing banning stuff on number of deaths from them, then personally owned vehicles need to be banned.
Those nasty things killed roughly 41,000 people in 2023 in the US alone. Worldwide it estimated that 1.3 million die.
Folks that imbibe ANY alcohol need to be prohibited from ever driving or owning a vehicle, they killed a little over 13,000 people in 2023 in the US.
Folks that take ANY mind altering substances (drugs, both prescribed and illicit) need to be prohibited from driving or owning a vehicle. There were 10903 people in 2021 in the US that died from their use of such and driving in the US.
Extreme? Yes. Any more extreme that those crying for the banning of a tool that is mis-used? No, not realistically. It's just that society has accepted those deaths as par for the course and to be expected.

The research on mass shootings is interesting. Prior to 2000 there were very few of them documented. After 2000 they started to increase.
I need to research the correlation between the age of the shooters and the rise of the FPS game popularity (which started in the 90s). I'm pretty sure that there is going to be an interesting correlation found.
Just a quick sample of school shootings (not mass shootings)

Between 1970 and June 16, 2020, 175 school shootings were perpetrated by 17-year-olds. 16-year-olds perpetrated the second highest number of school shootings, with 163 shootings.

The average age of the current mass shooters are between 20-30 years old. So, what in society has changed from pre-2000 20-30 year olds to post-2000 20-30 year olds?
The problem is... folks try to look at the instrument used and not the actual underlying cause of the issues. And that's because actually finding the underlying cause of the issues will probably point back to a failure by our (the US) society to raise those shooters with the core values that were present by those of that range that were in existence pre-2000.


As for the hogs... it is estimated that the cost of their damage in the US is upwards of $2.5 BILLION dollars a year. And that is just damage directly done by their feeding and such. It does NOT include the damage (and some deaths) caused by accidents involving feral hogs.
I do not know if you realize it or not, but a MUCH more effective weapon for killing folks in those type of scenarios (close quarters/high numbers) is a high capacity shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot. Most of the shootings involving them were close range (very few were distance shootings. And the shotgun is MUCH more deadly for CQB.
I present you with the Benelli M4 tactical, a weapon designed for that very type use.



And then the Mossberg 500 Tactical



or the same one designed for easy of carry and really close quarters



But NONE of the above are effective for hog hunting... they were primarily designed for use against persons by the military and law enforcement.
They have been adopted by many as home defense weapons.
And surprise... they aren't demonized nor sensationalized as the AR is.

The problem with the AR/AK47 is it's shown in so many games and on TV that people think they are tactiKOOL and are drawn to them and want to own one.
And so many are now inured to violence by playing video games and a change in the way they were raised and they are used to seeing the AR/AK47 in those games they fixate on.

Personally... I don't own any modern weapons for hunting now. My primary long guns are a TC Hawken 50 caliber, TC Hawken 54 caliber and then a CVA electra for use in wet conditions.
So I have no real dog in the hunt other than having been in law enforcement for around 15 years and seeing the way society changed in the period I referenced above.

 

[Tiffany]

I have personal hog experience and the severe damage they can do to your personal property. This has been a problem in our neighborhood for the past two years. Now in year three. I set up a wildlife camera over a year ago in wait for when they arrive which usually is in September. The wild hog's reside around a lake area and when the lake is dried up from our drought summers, the hogs will trail the creek for a few miles and invade our neighborhood. Two years ago, they damaged my front yard so severely that you would have thought our yard had a professional Christmas display in front of it for the cars that would drive by to stop and take pictures. They didn't see the severe damage in the back, which was devastating at the creek side of our property. My property was hit the worst in the front special thanks to someone who trailed corn out front to attract them.

We had the sheriff department involved (over the criminal mischief), and also for the continued gun shots throughout my neighborhood we had to continue to report. Stray bullets are a real danger. Finally the wildlife department of our county got involved but that turned out to be a real issue among our neighborhood residents. You have hunters, and then you have people of peace, like me, that preferred an alternative solution and even after my property was hit so badly. I did not want the alternative, which I will not go into detail as these discussions are prohibited on NZ. It was a difficult time for all of us in our neighborhood...kind of like politics and emails were flying between neighbors which caused a great divide on how this should be handled. Both years, the pigs were a part of thirty plus sounder's or more at times. I haven't seen a wild hog on my wildlife camera yet, but I'm sure they will arrive soon. We will not harm these pigs if these should damage our property again. These wild pigs/hogs weigh over 400 pounds and are known to charge. We were a bit fearful that they would plow through my dd's bedroom window at the front of the house because they were digging in our flower beds.

@Astro What thanks for sharing your tactical knowledge and statistics. Guns are a real problem in America. Look at that crazed Routh guy that had a SKS-style, 7.62x39 caliber rifle with a scope and he's a convicted felon.

@data66 I do understand how you feel about gun danger as America is now well known for our gun culture in a bad way.

Back to the debate topic.....I understand that Trump says "no" to another debate. Does anyone think, he will cave and do another debate or is he done?

 

[Retro]

@Tiffany I'm so sorry about the severe property damage that you've experienced, no one needs that kind of headache and expense and I really appreciate that you won't hurt the hogs over it.

Stray bullets are a real danger.

Yeah, no kidding. I'd feel very unsettled by them.

In most cases of invading and / or rampaging animals in any situation, there's a humane way to deal with it rather than just indiscriminantly murdering them as its convenient, which I strongly disagree with. Sure, it's usually a lot more expensive, labour intensive and inconvenient, but I think that's the correct approach as it respects life, both animal and human.

One must keep in mind that the animal has no concept of the destruction that it's causing and hence there's no malice in its actions and is therefore innocent. It just wants food, water and shelter like any other living creature. It's just doing it in the wrong place!

Tiffs you're right that we don't want to stray into the "merits" of hunting v other ways of controlling animals as it's against the forum rules and I just touched on it there. However, such a conversation can be had in pm no problem if one wants to do so. This is open to everybody.

Hopefully, you'll eventually capture some nice hi def pics of those hogs and will share them on NZ.

Back to the debate topic.....I understand that Trump says "no" to another debate. Does anyone think, he will cave and do another debate or is he done?

I can't call it. However, I think if Kamala continues to belittle and embarrass him over his refusal to take part, basically calling him a loser like she did before, then he might feel compelled to try again. I like this as it puts him a no-win situation - he's gonna look a pathetic loser either way and drop even further in the polls.