Delusional Boris Johnson wants to return as PM

Retro

Founder
Staff member
Joined
4 Jun 2021
Messages
2,072 (3.77/day)

Arantor

Well-known member
Staff member
Joined
24 May 2022
Messages
728 (3.73/day)
There is absolutely no surprise here. Not only has he apparently told some of the Tory MPs he'll be back inside a year (just waiting for probably-Truss to screw it up to welcome him back), but the reality is that his whole personality arc is about his own personal exceptionalism and how the rules are for everyone else to follow, not for him.

I'm sure under the bluster he actually believes he'll be back in a year, everything forgiven. More worryingly, a number of the voters in the party want his name on the leadership ballot.

I wouldn't refer to this as delusional, simply 'rather unlikely given current circumstances'. But I wouldn't be surprised if he's running the party again by the next general election. Part of me hopes he is, so the Tories can be out of power for a good number of years.
 

Retro

Founder
Staff member
Joined
4 Jun 2021
Messages
2,072 (3.77/day)
He's Trump mark 2 isn't he?

But I wouldn't be surprised if he's running the party again by the next general election. Part of me hopes he is, so the Tories can be out of power for a good number of years.

Oh gawd no don't say that! I really don't wanna see him in power again and if he were to win the election, it would be an absolute disaster.
 

Arantor

Well-known member
Staff member
Joined
24 May 2022
Messages
728 (3.73/day)
He's cut from much the same cloth, yes, though I will give Alexander Johnson his due in that I don't think he'd mismanage a casino into being a loss-making business. The other key difference is that Johnson is perfectly happy to be perceived and thought of as a buffoon as a jokey blokey image that he's been cultivating carefully for many years. A good number of his supporters actively describe him as 'fun'.

I don't want to see him in power again, but I have a feeling that by the end of 2023 it may well be the case.
 

Tiffany

Pixel Princess
Staff member
Joined
13 Apr 2022
Messages
858 (3.64/day)
I really don't get how people, whom publically have disgraced themselves believe it's okay to keep themselves relevant, with whatever attention getting means they use; they are without shame. I don't know much about UK politics though I do keep up with it a bit. I'm kind of seeing the same Trump playbook here, is that what you all are seeing?
 

Retro

Founder
Staff member
Joined
4 Jun 2021
Messages
2,072 (3.77/day)
Yup Tiffs, very Trumpian alright. This guy is bad news.
 

Arantor

Well-known member
Staff member
Joined
24 May 2022
Messages
728 (3.73/day)
The difference is that Boris is slightly more self-aware than Trump, and completely not above a little self-humiliation to get his way because he's more shameless than Trump is.
 

Tiffany

Pixel Princess
Staff member
Joined
13 Apr 2022
Messages
858 (3.64/day)
No wonder why they got along so well.😑

Are you all happy with the people seeking to replace Boris?
 

Retro

Founder
Staff member
Joined
4 Jun 2021
Messages
2,072 (3.77/day)
Are you all happy with the people seeking to replace Boris?
lol love that question! There can be no "happiness" with candidates like these. They're both tories and therefore both terrible candidates. There are of course differences between them beyond just the obvious male / female one.

Sunak seems the slightly better candidate for the country, but the problem there is that he might have a higher chance of winning the next general election (GE), but we absolutely must get the tories out. They're so corrupt and have done so much damage to this country which will only continue if they remain in power. Critically, we have zero chance of going back into the EU with them in power.

Truss will likely just screw everything up and damage the tory party and the country so much that Labour may win that GE by a landslide, perhaps even an early election. On the other hand, she campaigned hard for Remain before the brexit referendum, so even though she professes to be a hardcore leaver now, maybe she'll do some good in bringing us closer to the EU. It's a real longshot though as the ERG are gonna push back hard and unfortunately, they've got a lot of influence. She might also have genuinely have changed her mind, in which case she's no better than Sunak or any other rabid leaver.
 

Tiffany

Pixel Princess
Staff member
Joined
13 Apr 2022
Messages
858 (3.64/day)
Since Johnson is a Tory, and has resigned, does that mean only Tories can fill the PM position? Which ever candidate wins, do they only serve the remaining of Johnson's term, or do they start over with a new term?

Sorry, they are both not so good; Sunak does appear to be the better choice by what you described, though may affect a later outcome that would impair UK's future to return to the EU? Does the UK have a chance of returning to the EU then, after all?
 

Arantor

Well-known member
Staff member
Joined
24 May 2022
Messages
728 (3.73/day)
So, we have a system whereby we divided the country into 650 regions, each has an elected MP. The majority of these seats are held currently by members of the Tory party, and the party leader of whichever party holds a majority is the PM. (If no party has a majority, it’s then whichever parties can form the larger coalition to make a majority. There are some cases where a minority government can serve but they’re unlikely to get much legislation passed.)

Essentially what we’re looking at is the Tory party trying to figure out who their leader is. All the rounds of voting so far have been by the MPs themselves to whittle down to two candidates, and the Tory party members (regular folks who paid their fee and decided “yes this is where I want to be”) get to vote. There are some 160,000 party members at this time, and they are essentially going to decide the PM for the rest of the term, until December 2024 at the latest.

Personally I think resignation of the PM should mean a general election so that we, the public, get to decide and give the new PM their mandate by voting their party in, but the Tories aren’t going to go for that, especially not now, because the winds of fate are not on their side right now. I don’t think it would matter who was party leader for the GE, anti Tory thinking is probably strong enough to get them out of power even if it ends up needing a Labour-LibDem coalition to do it.

But the Tory planners are doing the math and figuring out if they can hold on until 2024 when the “current struggles” should be over. Presumably by then the war between Ukraine and Russia will be over and they will have found a new excuse to rally behind as to why the prices are going up and peoples‘ living standards keep going down.

However, the fuel price cap rise in October is going to go down like a shit sandwich especially with what’s going on - it’s one thing to raise the heating bills headed into summer, and a warm summer at that, but to do it again in autumn heading towards winter? Cold, hungry people with no ability to fix their situation is absolute breeding grounds for civil unrest.

Unless the new Tory PM demonstrably eases this for ordinary folk, they probably won’t last much past Christmas. Sunak is absolutely the wrong candidate on that particular issue - as someone with a track record of not getting the very real struggles of ordinary people. Truss just strikes me as a little more in touch, but not a lot.

I am quite a lot afraid this is going to get much worse before it gets better, and the damage done in the meantime may not be recoverable - the NHS is going to come in for even more of a beating, I’m afraid.
 

Retro

Founder
Staff member
Joined
4 Jun 2021
Messages
2,072 (3.77/day)
Crikey Arantor, I was going to reply to Tiffs, but you beat me to it and then some! 🙂

I also think it's looking like the tories are gonna get voted out, but as you say, not before they do significantly more damage. The way they're wrecking the NHS is possibly the worst part of it.
 

Tiffany

Pixel Princess
Staff member
Joined
13 Apr 2022
Messages
858 (3.64/day)
@Arantor Thank you for all of that detail. On the 160,000 party members allowed to vote, are these members similar to our electoral college but at a more local level because the pay a fee for the privilege to be able to vote?

A general election makes more sense as a "do-over" is defiantly justified.

I'm worried about the fall and winter for everyone too. I just read an update on fuel prices and how it's going to domino effect both the EU and the US severely. We have a lot of people now barely making it and struggling like they never have before. Crime is way up everywhere and people are already snapping. We had a shooting incident at Love Field Airport the other day (Dallas), where a woman actually got into the airport with a gun (really don't know how and totally unacceptable), but after she changed, she came out shooting at the ceiling and the Airport police were prompt in shooting her. Most people are saying this was an intended suicide death by cop.

I'm sad to also agree, all of this is going to get pretty harsh for everyone this fall and winter.

Are your health services all by design and controlled from the NHS? Are there not any private practices? Is the NHS decreasing health care services and less people are able to get healthcare?

@Retro If the Torries get voted out and the Labour party gets back in power, will life get so much better in the UK? Usually in the US at mid-terms the current ruling party in the executive branch (Democrats currently), most always gets a shellacking and will lose a lot of seats in the house and a few may be compromised in the senate. When this happens, the remaining two years of the current president, is considered a lame duck because the opposite party (Republicans) now occupy both house and senate and will block all bills to the president. The chaos of this potential scenario is creating an acceleration of a lot of bills that the Democrats want passed before November. No one listens to each other here anymore. No one is focused on the real life crises happening with with real life people. They are all shamelessly focused on their own parties progress, not the progress of humanity.
 

Arantor

Well-known member
Staff member
Joined
24 May 2022
Messages
728 (3.73/day)
No, not really.

You have to be a member of the party to stand as an MP for that party in one of the constituencies, and as a party member you elect who is the leader of the party in the event of a leadership change. Your membership fee then goes towards marketing, or research or whatever the party wants to do to advance its cause - the opposition parties will no doubt use it for rallying people to their cause.

There’s also more local level politics you can participate in, but for the big stuff, being a paid member of the party is a requirement to become an MP for them, and let’s you vote for the leader in change.

The Tories have 160k members, Labour has around 415k members but that doesn’t translate to who wins the constituency seats, which is literally “whichever MP got the most votes” and naturally favours the incumbent government so no one wants to talk about reform (and the last time we tried, the “alternative vote” campaign shot themselves in the foot so hard you’d think they were campaigning *against* the idea)

But there’s a lot of fracture going on at the moment. I’m expecting to hear that Scotland is just going to go ahead with a referendum to ask the public if they think Scotland should leave the UK. I also think that Star Trek’s prophecy of “the Irish reunification of 2024” which was a throwaway comment in 1987 might actually turn out to be not so far off the mark…

Brexit is upsetting a lot of people in a lot of ways and every downside raised by the remainers that was dismissed as “project fear” has come, or is coming, to pass. It remains a project to benefit the few at the expense of the many, sold to the many as an ideological position to take.

What concerns me is that all the senior Tory politicians are desperately pretending that the state of the country has nothing to do with Brexit because that would alienate a non trivial chunk of their core voter base. It doesn’t matter whether it’s covid, or the Ukraine war, some excuse is found to “justify” it as anything other than Brexit.

I don’t know how gullible these people think the public are, but the public isn’t standing for it nearly as much as the government is hoping.
 

Tiffany

Pixel Princess
Staff member
Joined
13 Apr 2022
Messages
858 (3.64/day)
I get your political system better, thank you!

That's really serious if Scotland wants to leave the UK.

I had to refresh my memory about this episode, The High Ground. Found some interesting background on the episode too: https://www.irishcentral.com/culture/entertainment/star-trek-predicte-reunification-ireland-2024

I think gullibility is systemic based on what people believe because it's easier to accept what they hear rather then digging deeper to find the real truths. There are a large group of American's that are mad as hornets that want to see some stability in food prices and stocked shelves, realistic fuel costs, and some relief in utility and overall economic costs.

Our politicians here (both parties), won't put blame on the core issues either.
 

Retro

Founder
Staff member
Joined
4 Jun 2021
Messages
2,072 (3.77/day)
Rory Stewart also thinks that Johnson wants to do a comeback and unfortunately, I believe him. Hasn't he already done enough damage to this country?

I just hope he gets forced out of politics first by that privileges committee inquiry, then he'll have no chance.

Boris Johnson is “hoping to do a Berlusconi” and make a “populist return” to Downing Street after being ousted by his own MPs, according to a former Conservative cabinet minister.

In an interview with the Guardian, Rory Stewart said people needed to be reminded Johnson was forced to quit – over a slew of scandals – because some supporters wanted Johnson to “come back”.

Several of Johnson’s allies believe his detractors will come to rue removing him from office upon his successor taking over, and will brush off the poor polling as midterm blues.

But some Conservative MPs have privately voiced concerns the party could be on course to lose the next general election, due in part to the damage wreaked by Johnson – evidenced by a string of byelection losses and not having held a poll lead since December 2021.

 

Arantor

Well-known member
Staff member
Joined
24 May 2022
Messages
728 (3.73/day)
There is still a healthy contingent of the Tory voter base that believes in him, because he brought them such a thumping victory. But also because neither Sunak or Truss are in any way good candidates. Sunak brings the worst of Blairism to the table, that polished veneer but unlike Blair, there's no substance. He looks good in a suit, says all the right things when he's got a cue card - but when he hasn't... he's stuffed.

Truss on the other hand will continue to say whatever crosses her mind as what she thinks others want to hear, regardless of how bad it apparently sounds.

Boris - for his many, many faults - is actually less bad because while he also says what he thinks others want to hear, even he isn't entirely tone deaf.
 

Retro

Founder
Staff member
Joined
4 Jun 2021
Messages
2,072 (3.77/day)
Even if Johnson is less bad than these two, and I doubt it, he must still go. The reason is that the message must be that if you screw up you're out. Otherwise, what's the insensitive for the next PM or party to do better? They'll just know that they can get away with it even more than now.
 

Arantor

Well-known member
Staff member
Joined
24 May 2022
Messages
728 (3.73/day)
That's the thing, Boris has created this precedent that all the taboos of old no longer matter. You 'can't' call someone a liar in the HoC even if they are blatantly lying. You may only suggest that 'my right Honourable friend may be mistaken' or similar.

I often think the Speaker of the House shouldn't be from the same party as the incumbent government for similar reasons. Then again I'd quite like Bercow back even with the subsequent revelations (smears?) because whatever else, he held a fire under the arses of the people in front of cabinet.

The thing is, whatever Truss (since I don't see Sunak getting in) does, it kind of doesn't matter. Unless by some miracle she starts turning things around for the ordinary people, the next step is civil disobedience on a scale that hasn't happened here in a while. The Tory plan is what it always was: transfer wealth to the rich, ensure the rich stay rich, convince everyone else to pay for it, and occasionally complain that Labour will only cost people more.

This current cycle will be to install Truss, then try to ride through whatever happens until 2024 and hope that all this blows over by then so they can get voted in again.

I mean, Truss wants to assemble the finest minds she knows about, stellar giants like John Redwood going off to the Treasury. JRM too, I believe.
 

Arantor

Well-known member
Staff member
Joined
24 May 2022
Messages
728 (3.73/day)
Not to mention the £150k or so of public money spent on legal assistance designed to stall Partygate’s inquiry.
 

Crims

Well-known member
Joined
5 Aug 2022
Messages
297 (2.43/day)
Looks like the partygate inquiry won't be derailed by dirty tricks from Johnson's lawyers. I can't see him returning, no matter how much he wants to.

That's good. The day that we have Johnson return is the day that the country has many more obstacles than it should :p
 
Top Bottom