Is globalisation just a tax avoidance scheme?

Crims

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I don't know globalisation particularly well I admit. However, a little search I performed about globalisation and the UK had a result that strangely enough showed about the various issues I had with the economic policy as a whole and our own economy. The title is in reference to the result.


Liz Truss and the various members of the government have offshore faculties in order to avoid tax and a fragile at best congruence of promise's.
 

Tiffany

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I know the intent and end-game of globalization too well. 😑Good article. In one of the modules, from your link, for "winners and losers" on the loser side, it mentions "rust-belt" regions. In case you are not familiar, those are the states like Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio where car manufacturing, steel mills, etc. were big industry in the last century. A lot of the infrastructure in these states are now abandoned and decaying like ghost towns.


Ross Perot, in 1992, was the first to caution the US on NAFTA. He referred to it as the "giant sucking sound" because all of our industry will be displaced and moved across seas. So yes, if I was in the UK, I would be concerned about my economy and what industries are staying or leaving because of globalization.

 

Crims

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^Nah, that's already happened Tiff. Chronologically, and disputably:
Maggie Thatcher killed a lot of manufacturing and unions during the 80s. The following PM ignores the issue, and Tony Blair causes a pointless war while the UK's tied closer to the EU (which has led to here). It's been a pretty obvious and slow decline here/not a lot of political work in general for the good of anyone.
 
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Tiffany

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^Nah, that's already happened Tiff. Chronologically, and disputably:
Maggie Thatcher killed a lot of manufacturing and unions during the 80s. The following PM ignores the issue, and Tony Blair causes a pointless war while the UK's tied closer to the EU (which has led to here). It's been a pretty obvious and slow decline here/not a lot of political work in general for the good of anyone.
That's a shame! Every country can uniquely offer goods and services in a global balance but shouldn't be exhaustive at the detriment of hurting it's own peoples economy and jobs. That's were the US is and has been also for decades because of NAFTA.....we too have lost a lot of industry. US is highly service based now, rather then manufacturing.
 

Retro

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@Crims Well the being close to the EU, heck in it, was very good. There's no upside to brexit.
 

Arantor

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There's no upside to brexit.
Oh, there are, just not for the vast majority of us.

If you're in the fortunate position to be rich and wealthy (yes, you need to be both), such that you can benefit from reducing tax laws and making the UK a tax haven where you're not reporting offshore taxes (unlike in the EU), sure, then it's an upside for you.

Consider also the consequences of, say, driving down worker rights. If you can set the stage for not having workers take 5.6 weeks off per year that you as a business owner have to pay for, you can lower your costs. Sick days too. Just need to get rid of the EU rules around such things.

The sunny uplands absolutely exist - for the very few people that funded this entire trainwreck, to line their own pockets.
 

Retro

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@Arantor Oh yes, of course, we know that. I was talking from the perspective of the rest of us on the sharp end of this fraud and raping of human rights. Funny how ultra toff, ultra wealthy Jacob Rees-Bogg is so incredibly in favour of brexshit, isn't it?

Disgusting. I could rant.
 

Arantor

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Jacob Really-Smug is borderline offensive in general with his attitude. Like how he wants to open up fracking and suggests he would 'welcome it' in his back garden. It's an easy promise to make knowing full well it could never come to pass.
 

Retro

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I can't stand him either. He's such a liar, like in your example. He's offensive, period. No borderline about it. He uses his polite manner to give the impression that everything he says is proper and above board, when it clearly isn't.
 

Crims

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@Arantor The way of the rich, they always stay on top, while we continue to lose our savings from this crazy inflation.
Yep. You'd think that we were anything separate to the US but apparently we're a micro plutocracy.

The bigger question then is is globalisation a better alternative? Seems like globalised = more tax evasion and basically this.
 

wolfdeer

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I personally don't like the idea of globalization in general, but when you throw in tax evasion for large, successful companies? No, thank you.
 

Arantor

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I think, conceptually, globalisation isn't a bad idea, but it's the realities involved that make it so.

The only way it actually works is if you stop trying to treat it as different countries with different laws and different borders and start going off 'it's one large thing where we celebrate our differences as much as we celebrate what makes us the same'.

Right now, large companies use the different tax rates to squirrel away profits (thank you Ireland, also the Caymans), and there's no shortage of people playing arbitrage on the stock market profiting off the differences in currencies around the world.

And, of course, if you can ship things to China to get them made more cheaply than paying local workers, well, that benefits the Chinese economically and of course isn't great environmentally.

But if you could put that aside somehow, so that you're no longer seeing it as loopholes to be exploited but simply 'you have the world and its wonders to experience and share', where you could get the best of art, culture, cuisine and imagination from each country at your fingertips... sort of like how the internet was when it first arrived in the 'mainstream' for a lot of people, that they could suddenly communicate with people anywhere around the world to share ideas, thoughts, stories, culture and so on.

I think we need to first figure out how to step back from late-stage capitalism and figure out a post-scarcity economic model and globalisation really isn't the problem any more.
 

Crims

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Right now, large companies use the different tax rates to squirrel away profits (thank you Ireland, also the Caymans), and there's no shortage of people playing arbitrage on the stock market profiting off the differences in currencies around the world.

And, of course, if you can ship things to China to get them made more cheaply than paying local workers, well, that benefits the Chinese economically and of course isn't great environmentally.

Becomes a inevitable part of it when there's a competition for who can provide low tax, and the US law that allows offshore tax havens for offices. It's a large reason the UK tech scene isn't comparable, and America treats businesses better than people.

The second part is actually part in parcel of why Italy has turned to right wing. It's more of an issue.
 

Tiffany

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Not for globalization or one world government, but I do believe balanced trade and fair trade laws can make a huge difference in the overall health of each country. Capitalism has it's place, without it we wouldn't have innovation because the nature of people to be inspired with entrepreneurship would be less attractive under strict government regulations, but capitalism only works with honest people at the top of the hierarchy chain....in my humble opinion. :)
 

Tiffany

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Yep. You'd think that we were anything separate to the US but apparently we're a micro plutocracy.

The bigger question then is is globalisation a better alternative? Seems like globalised = more tax evasion and basically this.

Forgot to add this....yes....agreed!
 

Retro

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Globalisation really does seem to be a double edged sword. We wouldn't have a lot of the goodies we have now if it weren't for that, but then it can get quite exploitative for ordinary people as the rich and powerful manipulate things in their favour, plus it creates a much bigger market that they have to compete for jobs in. It can also help to depress wages in more affluent countries when they have to compete with India and China where wages and standards of living are low.

I don't know the answer to this, but I'm leaning towards globalisation as otherwise you get an argument for brexit which puts countries into silos and we know that's a Bad Thing.

Things generally work better when borders are torn down rather than erected. The EU is a great example of the benefit of breaking down borders between countries, benefitting everybody. A little bit like an open plan office when you think about it.

That's my tuppence worth anyway. :)
 

Tiffany

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If greedy people at the top would balance globalization better without harming the health of their (each) economy and their people, then I can get there.

@Retro Your tuppence is worth it!
 

Retro

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Thanks Tiffs. I've now fleshed out the post a little bit if you wanna have another read. You can use the History function to see the previous version, if you wanna compare.
 

Tiffany

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Thanks Tiffs. I've now fleshed out the post a little bit if you wanna have another read. You can use the History function to see the previous version, if you wanna compare.

Thanks! Cool little xF feature there!
 

Crims

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Revitalising this thread:
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This is the standard, and naturally I'm putting it in its appropriate thread.
 

Retro

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Yeah, funny that. Rank hypocrisy right in our faces. And funny how costs haven't risen nearly as much in other countries. It's all down to this corrupt government and brexit. tories out.
 

Crims

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US is highly service based now, rather then manufacturing.
I'm finally getting around to replying to this: the UK transitioned to a service-based economy in the 00s. It's the (well, one of the) main reason Brexit has hit us so hard.
And corruption, obviously. I remember Liz and her energy associates.
 
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Tiffany

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The elites don't feel the pain of the economy, inflation, electric and gas prices, like we do. They forget from whence they came from and why they were elected to serve in the first place, then they become corrupt and "they" wonder why we have trust issues.

And, yes, agreed @Crims, without industry and manufacturing, people pecking at the keyboard all day will not make an economy thrive.
 
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