The Trump thread

[Astro What]

@Astro What please open your mind to the possibility of it having been rigged. There's too much evidence to not be suspicious at this point. Hopefully, one day the smoking gun will hopefully emerge and hopefully before it's too late to do anything about it.

Just because there are ways to get in does not equate to it happening.
Otherwise, by that argument then you have to say every computer in the world is currently hacked because there are weaknesses in design that can be exploited, ergo they must be hacked.
It's rather hard to hack into something remotely if it's never hooked up to allow remote access other than under controlled conditions.
And those machines aren't just left stored in a closet at the end of a never travelled hall and not monitored in most jurisdictions. The VERY few that they aren't monitored do not encompass enough votes to turn an election.
Hell, even in my podunk county the machines are kept locked up using a biometric lock system, the door is on an alarm that sounds (and logs) any time it is opened and there are video cameras monitoring the outside door and the room itself from 2 of the 4 corners, and that video is stored onsite and off-site and there are only a few that have access to the video software.

The majority of the arguments being used are simply tie-dyed versions of what Trump and Company tried to use when he lost.
Anything is possible to happen. But if one wants to make claims that it impacted something, you need evidence... which is sorely lacking, both in the arguments being used to try to defend the Democrats loss just like it was when it was used to try to defend Trump's loss.
There is a phrase that covers that philosophy.. Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda.

From actually talking with people and watching the number of yard signs and stuff in my area, I have no doubt that there are a LOT of gullible folks that bought into the BS that Trump was selling hook, line and sinker and voted for him. You can see a lot of those that did so now being vocal because the BS he sold about the Epstein files are turning out to have been just one more thing he manipulated them on along with the Medicaid issue (which will impact a LARGE number of folks that voted for him).
There are a LOT more gullible folks in this world now than there used to be. Hell, I know several left leaning Independents that voted for him because they were tired of what I detail in the next paragraph.

The Democrats (specifically Biden) did themselves ZERO favors when they kept hidden the issues that Biden were having and tried to play him off as perfectly fine when even the slowest in the electorate could tell he was on a decline. They then waited to the last minute to jump onto another train... and sadly it did not have enough time to gain any velocity because they jumped on the most convenient one (Harris) instead of actually finding the best one (an open nomination process).
As far as elections go, it was the perfect storm for Trump and it is what got him back into office. Voters were leery of the Democratic Party because of the way they worked so hard to hide the issue(s) that were present with Biden. Meanwhile, Trump, even though being a proven liar, was lying to folks faces and making it believable.

The funny thing is... the right brought out there "expurts" trying to prove the same thing... and many of them used similar arguments. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, the left is trying to "explain" away their loss while ignoring the VERY large elephant in the room, which I pointed out above.
If you look closely at voting tendencies world-wide, the conservatives in many areas gained ground in areas you would not expect that to happen. There is a reason for that. And the main reason is, the other party has begun to swing to far to the left instead of concentrating on staying as near to the middle as they can. Political extremism has become the norm on both sides of the aisle.
In some of the more recent elections in which conservatives did not gain, it is frequently being pointed as an Anti-Trump Bump being what protected them.

That video brings nothing new to the table other than a rewash of many arguments the right tried to use to explain away their loss... and if they especially especially trying to use Trump's ramblings it is problematic. We all know he rambles. We all know he makes crap up. We all know he spews that made up crap to the world. Even Trump knows he does it, but tries to divert from what it shows by giving it a name like the "weave". Yes... there are some VERY intelligent folks that their conversations will wander like that. But the statements they make during their "weave" are easy to see as being based upon fact or strong evidence.
Trump would easily be shown in ANY legal trial to be an unreliable source for the truth if he ever was placed on the stand. And he is WELL aware of that... it's why in all his trials he has gone through he has refused to get on the stand. Hell, even in many of his depositions he has been shown to have been untruthful at the worst and disingenuous in most other substantiative responses.

 

[Retro]

Alright, I see you remain as unconvinced as ever, sigh. Alas, I don't have personal knowledge of these systems and how they're handled to properly counter what you're saying and bolster the hacking argument. I only have the info from the news and videos like this one. There's still just too much evidence from credible sources of foul play here to ignore. Add to this, the things that Trump has said and done, what Musk said and the way Trump won all 7 swing states on such tight margins that something really stinks here. I wanna stress that I'm not saying it's a certainty, but it's in the high 80s and even 90-something percent that it's been rigged in my opinion.

I'd love to see your reaction if they do ever find that smoking gun.

Podunk - had to look that up and I like it. Learned a new word today.

From Oxford Languages via Google:

a hypothetical small town regarded as typically dull or insignificant.

 

[Astro What]

I only have the info from the news and videos like this one.

And that was the argument used by those pushing he Trump "stolen election" beliefs.

There's still just too much evidence from credible sources of foul play here to ignore.

So said those that pushed the Trump "stolen election" story line.

The simplest answer is usually the correct answer. Folks got tired of the BS that the Democratic Party was feeding and they did a poor job of pushing where they were doing good. Then they had the hiding of Biden's health issues to fold into the mix when it was readily apparent that he was in decline and they tried to hide that fact.
Sadly... to start that election process off you had two very poor candidates. And you had one that had great messaging and the other got caught out. And by the time that party (the Democrats) finally acknowledged they had a major issue it was too late in the process to "paint" the alternative choice they selected in a very positive light.

 

[Retro]

And that was the argument used by those pushing he Trump "stolen election" beliefs.

So said those that pushed the Trump "stolen election" story line.

So what? That doesn't stop our side from using similar arguments when they're the truth. Dems fearing getting accused of the same arguments as a supposed invalidator is what Trump has relied on and it's worked, too. Again the difference is that Trump lied while the Dems told the truth.

btw, did you watch this latest video? I appreciate it was 28 minutes long so took some investment in time, but you need to have seen it to properly understand the arguments in it. And no, they don't need to be especially different to what's gone before, because the truth doesn't change, does it? Just keep banging that drum and produce more and more evidence to show it's true. Remember those credible sources that were in it which make all the difference.

So, how would you react if they did find that smoking gun? I'd really like to know.

As far as two bad candidates, Trump certainly was, but he somehow has that cult power to form that MAGA cult which one can't deny, unfortunately. For the Dems however, I reckon if Biden had been the same as in 2020 he'd have won again, perhaps by an even bigger margin. It was seriously unfortunate that age cought up with him and he declined just as the election was getting under way and it was so obvious throughout and to the point that the debate was a disaster. They should have replaced him near the start or never let him run (which they couldn't directly do, either), but that's easy to say with hindsight. They were between a rock and a hard place.

Again, it boils down to the electorate being blind to the conman insurrectionist criminal that Trump is and making it a close election (that it really was close I have no doubt, or they couldn't have pulled off that rigging without it being really obvious). Why could the likes of me and you see right through him, but not so many others? It was there for all to see, plus Biden had made a lot of genuine achievements and there were enough liberal media to point out the constant lies that Trump spewed out. So, Biden wasn't in his prime and age was catching up to him, that's no reason to vote for a conman insurrectionist criminal rather than the competition, whoever that was and whatever state they were in. But people are stupid like that, which enabled this to happen. No, Kamala won a close election and this time, it really was stolen.

 

[Astro What]

That doesn't stop our side from using similar arguments when they're the truth.

Whose "truth"?
There is the same amount of evidence to prove these claims as there was for those from Trump and his cronies.

I reckon if Biden had been the same as in 2020 he'd have won again

Very likely.. but the issue was he wasn't. And it was readily apparent to anyone watching him that he wasn't, yet the idiots in the Democratic party continued to push a fantasy that he was. Voters did NOT like that.

which they couldn't directly do, either)

Yes... they could have. That's why there is a nominating process... but they didn't want to go through that because, in hindsight, it would probably have actually shown the issues that Biden was having if he had to deal with others competing against him and him having to debate them.

Why could the likes of me and you see right through him, but not so many others?

The lesser of two evils theory. And several of my friends that voted for him pretty much stated that. They felt that even Harris was too radical in her position. Many of them would have voted for a more moderate Democrat.

No, Kamala won a close election and this time, it really was stolen.

No, she didn't. In fact, in 2024 I didn't vote for EITHER candidate because I did not feel that either Harris or Trump were qualified.
But I did vote for down-ticket candidates.
Of course, either losing side would probably look at my voting submission and then try to claim that the "machine cheated me" since I DID vote down-ticket but there was no vote for the Presidential candidate. And the only reason for that is that there was not a "Neither one since they are both poor choices" box to check.

 

[AllThingsTech]

Hackers gather at a conference every August to discover vulnerabilities in the US voting machines. Here’s last year’s results of August 2024:

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/12/hackers-vulnerabilities-voting-machines-elections-00173668

Let’s see what the results are next month. While the revelation that vulnerabilities found take a long time to get fixed could provide fodder for those questioning the outcome, a hack that would disrupt an election is unlikely. With that said, who knows, especially when a poll is tight?

In spite of said vulnerabilities, here is why voting machines are difficult to hack:

• Lack of internet access to voting machines
• Storage in secure locations with access limited to election officials, leading up to election day and after cast of votes
• Constant surveillance at polling stations, with training to election officials and security personnel to ensure no unauthorised access is possible
• System largely based on paper ballots

Election fact check: How voting machines work and why they're hard to hack

While election officials use technology for voter registration, tallying and in some cases vote-casting, the system is largely centered around paper ballots.

abcnews.go.com

Of course there are always insider threats and corruption present, as is the risk within any company with employees held in a position of trust. However, election officials have been held accountable for tampering with voting machines

 

[Astro What]

Of course there are always insider threats and corruption present, as is the risk within any company with employees held in a position of trust. However, election officials have been held accountable for tampering with voting machines

Yep.. Peters out of Colorado immediately comes to mind. And it seems that most of the ones that have been prosecuted were Trump followers.

 

[Retro]

@Astro What ok, we'll have to agree to differ on the election rigging. I'd hoped that this video might make you reconsider, at least to some degree, but no, not happening. nvm this is just a casual conversation.

I see we agree on some points however, so that's something.

Yes... they could have. That's why there is a nominating process... but they didn't want to go through that because, in hindsight, it would probably have actually shown the issues that Biden was having if he had to deal with others competing against him and him having to debate them.

That's what I was referring to. They can't just say "not you, him" and be done with it. Democracy I guess, lol.

 

[Retro]

Now that his own MAGA base are turning against him, I get the feeling that Trump might not get out of this one and might finally be his downfall. Good, can't come soon enough.

I feel so betrayed and so angry. This is not what I voted for.” “This cemented permanent deep state power.” “I’m concerned about being able to trust Donald Trump to keep his word.” “What about justice for these young ladies who were trafficked? What about their justice? Don’t they deserve justice?”

These were just a few of the calls that besieged conservative radio hosts across the US this week. The president’s ardent supporters spent the past decade fulminating over various foes, from Barack Obama and the deep state to undocumented immigrants and transgender children. Now they have a new target: Donald Trump himself.

The “Make America Great Again” (Maga) base is in revolt as never before. The trigger was Trump’s broken promise to publicly release details about Jeffrey Epstein, a wealthy financier and convicted sex offender, who was facing federal charges of sex-trafficking minors when he died in jail in 2019.

‘The ghost of Epstein is haunting Trump’s presidency’: inside the ‘Maga’ revolt

As pressure builds over the president’s broken promise to publicly release details about the convicted sex offender, his base has a new target: Trump himself

www.theguardian.com

 

[AllThingsTech]

@Retro maybe this is the sign of the times where Republicans fall out with Trump and join the American party founded by Elon Musk… Elon Musk’s timing could never serve himself better

Now now, I’m gonna ask you guys a tough question . I realise that Elon Musk is ineligible to run as president, but if you had to choose between Elon Musk and Trump as president, make your pick? This may be better off as a poll thread?

 

[Retro]

What would happen with the Republicans? I couldn't even begin to know. I just hope they turn on Trump now over the Epstein scandal.

Musk or Trump? Two terrible options. I guess Musk might be the better choice, but only just.

 

[AllThingsTech]

I couldn't even begin to know.

You couldn’t even begin to imagine And yeah, what a paradox in that Trump in his manifesto was criticising the Democrats, yet he himself does the very thing he criticised the Democrats for. No one likes shit like that and it works against him!

Also, why aren’t the Democrats using the opportunity to heavily censure Trump, just as Trump takes digs at the Democrats ALL THE TIME? Even now, geez - they clearly haven’t learnt their lesson!!! Come on Democrats, be more vocal!!! Oh wait, maybe some of the Democrats are also guilty?!?

I saw your debate with @Astro What regarding the possible hacking of voting machines. @Retro I don’t really tend to watch videos, but I’m curious as to if you have anything to say on my posts Also @Astro What I have to say - I’m starting to question the integrity of the FBI given that the FBI, out of the blue, denied the existence of a long known Epstein client list - something looks fishy here!!! Therefore, how do you trust that law enforcement aren’t corrupt and caving into Trump’s demands or bribes to keep their mouth shut about manipulation of votes by insiders, or what not?!?

Two terrible options.

I did warn you it was a tough question upcoming

PS: Sent you a message to get my hyperactivity out of my system…

 

[Retro]

I saw your debate with @Astro What regarding the possible hacking of voting machines. @Retro I don’t really tend to watch videos, but I’m curious as to if you have anything to say on my posts Also @Astro What I have to say - I’m starting to question the integrity of the FBI given that the FBI, out of the blue, denied the existence of a long known Epstein client list - something looks fishy here!!! Therefore, how do you trust that law enforcement aren’t corrupt and caving into Trump’s demands or bribes to keep their mouth shut about manipulation of votes by insiders, or what not?!?

Shhh!!! Don't say that, @Astro What will disagree with you and write a long rebuttal!

That's the thing with Trump, isn't it? One can't just walk in and corrupt the voting system, whether it's hacking with the voting computers, throwing away ballots, corrupting the FBI or other nefarious means, yet he's got enough power and influence to make those things happen. And the way he's been obliquely bragging about it is highly suspect too, that's why I'm almost certain that he rigged that election as I've been saying ever since the results came in last November. The first red flag was the way he swept to a win in all 7 swing states on such razor thin margins. It's so unlikely to happen that I call bullshit on that. In fact, various analyses on these have shown irregularites there in the various videos I've posted. Remember, when the election is tight, you only need to tip the result a little bit to get that illegitimate "win". The Dems really fucked up by not calling for manual recounts in those places. Harris is very much to blame here too as she also refused to challenge those suspect results.

And now for your homework: I'd be grateful if you could please try watching that video and letting us have your thoughts on it. As it's 28 minutes long, even just part of it would be something.

@Astro What you never told me if you'd watched it. I'd really like to know. I'm not trying to change your opinion on the election result by this point, but it would be good to know what you think of it, if you want to write a few words about it - you don't need to do a lengthy debunk, just a few thoughts would do. Similarly, if you want to post a video or article on why the election couldn't possibly have been rigged, I'll be happy to have a look at that too.

 

[Astro What]

Therefore, how do you trust that law enforcement aren’t corrupt and caving into Trump’s demands or bribes to keep their mouth shut about manipulation of votes by insiders, or what not?!?

The FBI is not responsible for maintaining security of the devices... individual city/county/state agencies are. And I've worked for several and I've seen how the voting machines are stored. They aren't just stuffed in an unlocked corner office that is in a rarely travelled hallway.
The FBI is not the agency that investigates the largest majority of those offenses... it's the local jurisdictions. Once those jurisdictions have processed the investigation, THEN the FBI/DOJ may also peek in and see if they get to play also.

Tina Peters (Mesa Colorado county clerk) was prosecuted by the locally elected DA (who I should mention was also a Republican as was Peters).. not the DOJ. The offense she was charged with was investigated by the local law enforcement, not the FBI.
Basically... the process was:

• The Mesa County District Attorney launched the initial investigation.
• The Colorado Attorney General joined the investigation.
• The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) raided Peters' home.
• The Colorado Secretary of State's Office revoked Peters' election supervisory duties.
• A grand jury of Peters' peers indicted her.
• A jury of Peters' peers convicted her on multiple counts, including misconduct, conspiracy, and impersonation.
• The District Attorney Daniel Rubinstein prosecuted the case.

Now of course, you have Pam Bondi's DOJ saying that they are "going to investigate the case". Since it was a state case, there is little to nothing that they can do about the conviction and Trump cannot pardon Peters since it was a state prosecution and not a federal one.

Shhh!!! Don't say that, @Astro What will disagree with you and write a long rebuttal!

Facts remain facts... hyperbole and fantasy also remain that. Until someone can bring some meat to the table instead of just empty hands the simplest answer is generally the correct one. Apparently if you lean left you are free to make these type of claims and they should be accepted without any factual backup but if you were on the right, then they are immediately questioned as to the veracity of the claims.
Goose, meet gander.

If there was evidence (and even if there wasn't in some cases) there would already have been judicial cases filed. There haven't been because everyone trying to push that position only has empty boxes to show, but the left is smart enough to not show how stupid they are in court by pushing these types of claims. There are only allegations based upon personal opinions and "could be's".

 

[Astro What]

The Dems really fucked up by not calling for manual recounts in those places. Harris is very much to blame here too as she also refused to challenge those suspect results.

Recounts can generally only be requested under certain conditions... generally when a contest is within a certain (small) percentage of each other.
Now, I think some jurisdictions WILL allow recounts once the party requesting one outside of those conditions posts a fee for performing it.. usually in the range upper 6 to mid 7 digit dollar range depending on how large the area is.

 

[Hitcore]

I realise that Elon Musk is ineligible to run as president, but if you had to choose between Elon Musk and Trump as president, make your pick?

For me it's President Optimus.



Humans had their shot and blew it. AI for POTUS!

 

[Retro]

Facts remain facts...

Well, that's the point, there is evidence of tampering, according to those videos. As I've said before, it's not just a wild conspiracy theory. So, have you watched the latest one I posted?

Agreed the evidence has to be good enough to bring to court though, but from what these people are saying, there's enough evidence for it to be very suspicious and warrant further investigation, which could have uncovered it, but that wasn't done.

They should have found the money to do recounts and other investigations in swing states, at least some of the most likely ones. Evidence found there, would be enough reason to widen the investigation.

I do like that Trump can't pardon state cases, putting a limit to his corrupt influence. I remember that being a thing on the news at the time.

 

[Retro]

For all of us who can't stand Trump, have a read of my first post in this thread sounding cautiously hopeful and feel depressed. I just hope like hell that this Epstein scandal will be enough to bring him down, but I'm not holding my breath. That he can't shake it off is a good sign though, very good.

Regardless of how strong a grip a cult leader has, people tend to draw a red line at pedos and sex trafficking, so this might just break the spell. There's also the efforts by Jessica Denson to impeach and finally convict Trump which helps to put pressure on him. Note that there's been legal moves against him too, not just people protests.

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[Astro What]

Well, that's the point, there is evidence of tampering, according to those videos. As I've said before, it's not just a wild conspiracy theory. So, have you watched the latest one I posted?

If there was evidence... there would be court filings reflecting that. There were plenty of folks pushing the Trump "stolen election" fantasy that claimed there was evidence also... "according to what they had been told".
There is a difference between supposition and what "could be" and then what actually was.
Hell, there was enough claims by the Trump idiots to make one suspicious, and that's what he banked on... but once one got to actually digging into the facts it was easily discovered that they were much ado about nothing.

The irony is... those pushing the stolen election claims from the left don't recognize how much alike those that were doing it on the right were. If you have facts... present them in court. Don't try to push it in the public eye and make like it's true. I have to give the Trump idiots that much... they believed in their claims enough to take it to court and watch themselves get slapped down for their idiotic claims.

 

[Retro]

You still haven't said if you've watched it or not. I just wanna know. Oh nvm.

The rest of my post has already addressed the points you make here, which have merit to be fair, so I won't repeat them here or we'll just go further round in circles. We disagree and that's ok. Retro rummages around for the right kind of koolaid to slip into Astro What's tea when he's not looking.

 

[Retro]

How to best use the Epstein scandal against Trump to bring him down: use the same dirty populist tricks that he uses.

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[Astro What]

You still haven't said if you've watched it or not.

Yes... and again.. a rehash of many claims from 2020, except Musk's name gets thrown in.
Harris and the Democrats had the means, the method and the opportunity to do the same.
And a LOT of it is based upon the incoherent ramblings of Trump.
And did you actually READ the letter from Buell? The primary concern was the fact that folks got their hands on the software that was valid AT THAT TIME, and he ones that did that have been caught and prosecuted.
Pretty sure Dominion and the other companies were smart enough to send out updates that would cause issues with anyone basing off the older code.
And guess what.... even the claim contains the requirement that someone has to "sneak in and have access to the machines". You seem to avoid the reality of the fact that is, while not impossible, negligible in the odds of it occurring. The times that it HAS occurred... it's resulted in prosecutions. And most of those machines have a paper backup ballot to fall back to.
Even Dr. Mebane has stated about his Pennsylvania analysis

that it is possible that "the election was decided or nearly decided by malevolent distortions of electors' intentions".

<note, emphasis added by me>
What is possible does not equate to what is. It is possible that all life could end in 24 hours due to a massive hidden asteroid hitting the planet. That does not equate to it happening.
Show me the meat. Otherwise it's just an air sandwich.

 

[Retro]

Yes, let's bring them out into the open! Let's drain the Trump swamp!

The secret recordings that could blow open Trump’s true relationship with Epstein

“I have been beating this horse for a very, very long time,” says Michael Wolff.

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[Retro]

Watch this Channel 4 Dispatches documentary aired a few days ago asking whether Trump is a Russian asset and see how suspicious his behaviour is. I've suspected it for years and his recent hostility towards Ukraine complete with the praise often showered on him by the Kremlin for "doing the right thing" and his fawning over Putin really make it an almost certain fact. Oh and remember how Russian state TV showed embarrassing, disrespectful nude photos of Melania immediately after he "won" that rigged election in November? Funny how Trump didn't bat an eyelid, isn't it? Russia was sending a message that they own him and that's chilling when this guy is the American president.

You should watch this especially if you think he's not, which I believe might be you, @Astro What? Please let us know what you think after watching it and reading the Snopes article.

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Russian State TV Aired Nude Photos of Melania Trump?

"This is Putin letting Trump know that he is in charge," one X user wrote.

www.snopes.com

 

[Hitcore]

So this dropped

Trump Live Updates: Bondi Told President His Name Was in Epstein Files

www.nytimes.com

And he fired back with this

White House hits back at reports Trump named in Epstein files

It came as a US judge denied a justice department's bid to unseal Florida court files on Epstein.

www.bbc.com

It's getting hotter. What do you think?