The Anti-Car Thread

[Retro]

Discuss issues surrounding the kind of restrictive anti-car measures that local councils and governments love to impose on motorists, such as punitive fines over nothing, ridiculous 20mph zones, road closures and more. This discussion applies to any country, not just the UK. I'll get the ball rolling with a few news items.

First up, we have the unfolding 20mph scandal that is the Welsh blanket speed reduction on almost all roads.

It's already screwing up bus services:
Welsh 20mph limit makes buses late and could lead to cuts in services

Intense protests are starting to make councils think twice about the 20mph limits that they've just imposed:

Pressure builds to scrap Welsh 20mph speed limit

A council is to review parts of the Welsh Government’s controversial 20mph speed limit amid growing pressure to scrap the restriction.

uk.news.yahoo.com

Extracting more money from motorists:
Drivers face heavy traffic fines as ‘cash-strapped’ councils gain more powers to target motorists

Hangover in Germany wants to banish cars altogether. What an astoundingly bright idea.

German city will remove thousands of parking spaces to discourage motorists

Hanover has set out far-reaching plans to banish cars from its inner city, which it hopes to turn into a place to “party and stroll about”.

uk.news.yahoo.com

And of course, everyone's favourite, ULEZ. It's such a massive scandal that I started a thread on it.

The London ULEZ is nothing but a scandalous money grabbing scam

UPDATE 30.08.2023 There's now anti-ULEZ protest movements should one want to join it. Unfortunately, I can't see them being effective now it's started: too little too late. The website is here if you're interested: https://anti-ulez.com https://togetherdeclaration.org/ What many of us...

nerdzone.uk

 

[Retro]

Rishi Sunak's tories are haemorrhaging so many points in the polls, that they're going all pro-car to try and gain some to have some hope of winning the general election. This has resulted in Sunak doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. As tempting as it is to vote tory for this issue, we shouldn't fall for it, as they're likely to go back on their promises and then keep right on screwing us over like they always do. Remember brexit? We'll never get back in if this shower remain in power. They pull these tactics every time, which has unfortunately worked for them for far too long.

Rishi Sunak is expected to block councils from introducing new 20mph zones as part of a “plan for motorists”.

The Prime Minister will use his party’s conference in Manchester at the weekend to announce that he will scale back low-traffic neighbourhoods and make it easier for drivers to challenge parking fines.

He is set to unveil plans to curb the powers of councils to introduce new 20mph speed limits on main roads.

The policies come in the wake of the Tories’ shock victory in the Uxbridge and South Ruislip by-election amid anger at Labour policy towards motorists.

The package of measures is also expected to include limits on councils’ abilities to levy fines from traffic cameras and restrictions on enforcing box junction infringements.

It's possible that if they bring these curbs in before the GE, then, even if Labour win, they might not be so keen to reverse them when they see just how popular they are.

Rishi Sunak to block new 20mph zones

Rishi Sunak is expected to block councils from introducing new 20mph zones as part of a “plan for motorists”.

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[Retro]

Looks like these nightmare cameras are coming to the UK. They'll do anything punitive to punish drivers ffs.

Experts are warning drivers that UK roads could soon be equipped with new speed camera devices that can detect harsh braking.

The new devices, which have been successfully trialled in Spain, will look to fine drivers who attempt to slow down to avoid penalties.
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Oftentimes when drivers are faced with a speed camera, they will brake suddenly before the camera to abide by rules and avoid getting snapped.

Once the person has driven past the speed camera, they may put their foot down and start to accelerate again, potentially going over the limit.

This device aims to prevent that from happening and penalise speeding drivers who could cause chaos on the roads by changing speeds in a short space of time.

Experts are now calling for the device to be introduced on UK roads to make sure all drivers take responsibility for driving at the correct speed.

New anti-braking camera could be rolled out across UK to slap drivers with more fines

Drivers will receive a £100 fine and three penalty points if they are caught speeding

www.gbnews.com

 

[Retro]

There goes the bogus safety argument for blanket 20mph speed limits. It was always just a pretext for generating revenue from people breaking it and getting nailed by speed traps as they get frustrated at such a slow speed. Heck, it's possible for a human being to actually run faster than this!

How Fast Is the World’s Fastest Human? | Britannica

Significantly slower than a speeding bullet, it turns out.

www.britannica.com

Putting in place “blanket” 20mph speed limits means drivers are less likely to slow down on roads where there is a school or children are playing, the Transport Secretary has said.

Mark Harper said widespread use of a 20mph limit “damages the ability” for the zones to have an impact on roads where a lower speed is required for safety reasons because drivers are “less likely to comply”.

The Department for Transport (DfT) announced on Friday that guidance would be reviewed on the use of 20mph limits in England to “prevent their blanket use in areas where it is not appropriate”.

It comes after the Labour-run Welsh Government dropped the default speed limit from 30mph to 20mph for restricted roads in a move it predicts could save up to 100 lives and 20,000 casualties in the first decade.

My car's cruise control actually works at 20mph, so I tried it in such a zone and the speed was intolerably slow and I actually began to lose concentration as my mind wandered. The slowest I see people drive is around 25mph. The worst thing is when they keep on doing it in a single lane 40mph zone where I can't easily overtake them, then my horn starts sounding and the lights flash...

‘Blanket’ 20mph speed limits make roads less safe, says Transport Secretary

The Conservative Government said it would strengthen guidance to prevent 20mph speed limits ‘in areas where it is not appropriate’.

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[Tiffany]

I'm sorry, until we have the travel technology like the Jetson's, we need cars.

"They" would be so happy if we were all holed up in our homes, never left, never watered the lawn, never did laundry, never cooked on our gas stove and especially didn't socialize with anyone so there wouldn't be any 5th columns come up for the dystopian world they envision for the masses.

Sorry that was dark. It's been one of those days.

 

[Retro]

Dark, but not so far fetched. They'd love cars only for the wealthy and those in power with the rest of the "commoners"* subjugated like you described. At most, perhaps we could get self driving taxis if we had the status and could afford them. Bastards, starting with Khan.

*Did you know that "commoners" are what the British "royal family" call non "royals" as if they're better than us? Yes, exactly.

 

[Tiffany]

Dark, but not so far fetched. They'd love cars only for the wealthy and those in power with the rest of the "commoners"* subjugated like you described. At most, perhaps we could get self driving taxis if we had the status and could afford them. Bastards, starting with Khan.

*Did you know that "commoners" are what the British "royal family" call non "royals" as if they're better than us? Yes, exactly.

I have heard "commoners" used many times in movies and such and assumed it was referring to the peasants but your description is a little worse because it implies if you are not royal than you are nothing.....there's a word I'd like to use for that.

 

[Retro]

but your description is a little worse because it implies if you are not royal than you are nothing.....there's a word I'd like to use for that.

That's exactly right. I'd love to know in pm what that word is.

 

[Retro]

Bloody hell, if you thought they were anti-car here in sunny Blighty, you should see just how bad it is in Singapore! I'd be totally unable to ever have a car there due to this extortionate charge they levy. What a scam.

I'm sure Sadiq Khan or the government would just lurve to bring it in, but I can't see it happening as we'd probably get riots all over the country.

Drivers in Singapore now need to pay £88,000 for the right to own a car - and that doesn't include the cost of the vehicle itself.

The city-state is the most expensive place in the world to be a motorist, with skyrocketing prices putting cars out of reach for most middle-class Singaporeans.

Back in 1990, a 10-year certificate of entitlement (COE) was launched to control the number of vehicles on the road, which is capped at about 950,000.

Would-be motorists need to bid for one of these certificates, which now cost four times more than they did in 2020.

The cost of buying a Toyota Camry Hybrid in Singapore - when combined with a COE, registration fees and taxes - now stands at £151,000, five times more than in the UK.

That's also twice more than the median annual household salary, which stands at £72,716.

Drivers in Singapore now need to pay £88,000 for permission to own a car (vehicle not included)

Drivers in Singapore now need to pay £88,000 for the right to own a car - and that doesn't include the cost of the vehicle itself. The city-state is the most expensive place in the world to be a motorist, with skyrocketing prices putting cars out of reach for most middle-class Singaporeans...

uk.news.yahoo.com

@Mars @Geffers check this out.

 

[Geffers]

Guess Singapore do not manufacture cars so owning a car bit like owning a private jet, reserved for the privileged few.

Geffers

 

[Tiffany]

I don't have any patience for people in power that consider themselves way above the serfs of the world. Frankly, I'd rather be a serf then a lying, controlling, power hungry fiend that thinks the world is better as long as the "commoners" are gone.

Sorry for Singapore and their laws that are prohibitive of car ownership unless you are super wealthy. That's so obvious what they are doing.

 

[Retro]

It's so hypocritical to try and impose charges like this over some pretext or other. Thankfully, the backlash got this one scrapped, but there's likely to be more attempts by other councils, perhaps even tory ones.

When Labour get into power at the next election (it's really likely, you know it) I hope they don't pull stunts like this.

Labour council’s ‘punitive’ congestion charge scrapped after backlash

A Labour council’s plans for a congestion charge in Cambridge have been formally abandoned after the “punitive” levy was rejected by the public.

uk.style.yahoo.com

 

[Retro]

Add total idiocy in the drive to be anti-car. I'll bet this makes the speed limit unenforceable in that area.

Drivers have been left confused after Transport for London placed 20mph road markings in 30mph zones.

Painted road markings telling motorists to drive at 20mph appeared last week on Streatham High Road in south London, next to a sign showing the higher speed limit.

TfL said the speed limit on the road remained 30mph but would change to 20mph in December to reduce accidents.

Drivers have criticised the mixed messaging as “idiotic”.

Drivers confused by TfL’s 20mph road markings in 30mph zones

Drivers have been left confused after Transport for London placed 20mph road markings in 30mph zones.

uk.style.yahoo.com

 

[Tiffany]

Add total idiocy in the drive to be anti-car. I'll bet this makes the speed limit unenforceable in that area.

Drivers confused by TfL’s 20mph road markings in 30mph zones

Drivers have been left confused after Transport for London placed 20mph road markings in 30mph zones.

uk.style.yahoo.com

OMG, if you have the streets painted, taking down the signs is easy and switching them out to the current speed. I can see the problem though, since the speed enforcement doesn't change until December they wanted to leave the signs up. Well, then why didn't they wait to paint the new speed limit on the road about two weeks before the new speed limit will be enforced and during the two weeks all of the signage has been changed it allows drivers to get used to the new speed but if they get caught speeding they won't get a ticket until the official speed enforcement goes into effect....Blimey!!

I also get your point too....20mph....you might as well walk.

 

[Retro]

Boody anti-car brigade. Hope they fail to persuade Khan to use his powers.

Sadiq Khan has been urged to use his legal powers to intervene in a London borough where the local mayor is set to rip-out traffic calming schemes.

Green politicians believe there is a “crystal clear” opportunity for the London mayor to use provisions within the Greater London Authority Act to save several walking and cycling schemes in the East End, which were introduced using Transport for London funds.

Tower Hamlets mayor Lutfur Rahman decided last month to axe the low traffic neighbourhood (LTN) schemes in Old Bethnal Green Road, Columbia Road and Arnold Circus.

Sadiq Khan urged to use legal powers to prevent East End LTNs being axed

Last-ditch plea to prevent Tower Hamlets mayor Lutfur Rahman ditching walking and cycling schemes

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[Retro]

How can an anti-car measure that's designed to intentionally damage cars that go over it possibly be legal? Saying it's signposted doesn't cover it. It would be like putting up a sign saying break into my house and you will be shot on sight by automatic fire. It's just flat out illegal. I can only think the usual corruption must be at play here to make this shit legal.

Read all about it in the article below, which also has a video showing the car trap.

Fuming motorists are complaining that their cars are being damaged and written off after being caught in a controversial bus lane trap. Dozens of motorists have found their cars stuck in the bus lane despite signs warning them not to enter it. The trap is located at the junction of Station Road and Harrison Way in St Ives, Cambs and is designed to prevent vehicles driving onto the busway. The pit in the road is wide enough that small vehicles fall into it but small enough that larger-diameter-wheeled vehicles, such as buses, may pass. But some locals are now complaining that the trap is a hazard with up to five motorists getting stuck every week.

Fuming motorists cars being written off after getting caught in bus lane trap

Fuming motorists are complaining that their cars are being damaged and written off after being caught in a controversial bus lane trap. Dozens of motorists have found their cars stuck in the bus lane despite signs warning them not to enter it. The trap is located at the junction of Station Road...

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[TheURL]

Whilst it's clearly a terrible idea, I'm not sure the moral comparison is quite right. In a high profile case many years ago in the UK a farmer who shot dead a burglar in his home was acquitted. The argument was partly self defence but also that the burglar effectively waived his right not to be shot once he left the public domain and entered the property. I may have forgotten the nuances of the case as it was several decades ago now. But that aside, this case is clearly different as it's being operated in a public space.

 

[Retro]

I agree, it's not a perfect example, but I just couldn't think of a better one off the top of my head and I wanted to finish my post. I used the example of automatic fire to help make the example more relevant.

Seriously, how is damaging cars for fun and profit just to maintain a restriction legal? The effect on those motorists caught in it is disastrous in various ways, especially on those less well off. If I ever get caught in something like that, you can bet that I'll be looking to sue the council that put it in.

 

[TheURL]

I'm sure somebody will in time, and it will be renounced. Ealing Council eventually tore up most of the LTNs eventually, so justice can prevail. But it shouldn't need an accident (and possible injury) to trigger it though.

 

[Retro]

This isn't anti-car in the usual sense of local authorities and Sadiq Khan making life difficult for motorists because they can. However, criminals targeting your registration plate to commit crimes that you suffer the consequences for most certainly is anti-car.

This article explains what happens and what you can do about it.

What is number plate cloning?

This is when someone puts a number plate from a vehicle that doesn’t belong to them on another vehicle. That registration plate may have been duplicated or the cloners might have stolen the physical number plate from the car it was originally on.

It’s done so that they can carry out crimes without paying the price. If the car is caught breaking the law – by a speed-camera, red light, or bus lane-camera, in a congestion charge or low emission zone without paying, driving off without paying for fuel or any other criminal activity - they know the punishment will be someone else’s problem.

Bastards: I think these criminals should have the book thrown at them. This is a worse crime than can first appear as it's a form of identity theft, causing people real and recurring problems over a long period of time.

Why number plate cloning is only going to get worse

Number plate cloning is a growing problem, with a recent police report suggesting that as many as one in 15 motorists could be doctoring their number plate.

uk.style.yahoo.com

 

[Retro]

100% penalty charge notice appeal win. This is what I like to see.

Drivers appealing against penalty notices in a London borough were successful every time for more than a year, the BBC has found.

Figures showed that, from July 2022 to September this year, Greenwich Council did not contest a single appeal - citing "no evidence" in every instance.

In such circumstance, the adjudicator must quash the driver's penalty charge.

Greenwich Council said it had not been able to supply any evidence during that period because of staff shortages.

The figures emerged after I successfully challenged their penalty charge.

Greenwich Council: Drivers succeed in every penalty charge notice appeal

A BBC News producer made the discovery about the Greenwich borough while contesting his own fine.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[TheURL]

All I will say here is that staff shortages have enabled drivers to be let off offences in Hounslow too.

 

[Retro]

Driver got out of a parking ticket on a technicality. Glorious!

Note that there's still one more stage to go before it's cancelled, but it's looking very likely at this point.

Driver wins parking fine battle because signs were 6cm too small

Parking signs where the blue ‘P’ box is less than 20cm cannot be enforced, a driver has successfully argued.

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[TheURL]

Excellent result!

 

[Geffers]

Few years back I got a parking fine cancelled due to a signage issue. Cannot recall exact details now but one of the two required signs was twisted round and not clearly visible, I queried this and was told ticket issued correctly.

Wrote a second letter explaining that if council wanted the privilege of issuing fines then they needed to accept the responsibility of maintaining their signs and we shall see what the court thinks about it. They cancelled ticket.

Geffers