The Trump downfall thread

Astro What

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Can we say ouch, that the deep penetration of his unmentionable parts hurts?
Doe it matter that this is a life-long Republican pusher and Trump supporter?
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I wonder how many will actually listen to Harris's interview with Bret Baer of Fox News and actually look at facts instead of drooling when the name Trump is mentioned? Never mind that Trump ran away with his small tail tucked between his legs when he discovered that on his 60 Minutes interview he would be fact checked and called to task and he simply didn't have big enough balls to face that heat.
It really looks like Trump remains a coward when it comes to a format where he can be called to task. He prefers a format that he can spout his easily disproven "facts" in a format that he is never questioned. That in itself should be very telling to anyone of a basic level of intelligence.

The sad thing is... the idiocy of the radical right or left is not limited to the United States. It seems to be spreading, and honestly I foresee physical battles on the part of the left and the right on who is "right". The sad thing is... the radicals on both sides show their sheer stupidity because countries ultimately need to be ruled by consensus... and neither the radical left or the radical right (MAGA in the case of the US) seems to realize this.
Maybe, using Trumps arguments, we should put the radicals of both sides either in jail or to death? You support the radical philosophy (left or right)? Do us all a favor and put a bullet in your brain.
 
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data66

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I really wish the lewd sexual content would have had some sort of spoiler, trigger warning for those of us who are survivors. I'm bowing out of this thread.
 

Astro What

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I really wish the lewd sexual content would have had some sort of spoiler, trigger warning for those of us who are survivors. I'm bowing out of this thread.
Pretty sure the only one that is involved in that type of action in this thread is a radical right MAGA proponent named Trump.
Sorry if it negatively impacts you, but honestly that should be a HARD wake-up call to those voting in the US for the position of President. Do you want someone that overall supports existing law and pushes for it's enforcement, or do you rather support someone who thinks it's fine to grab a female by her p*ssy because he has perceived power (to use his terms).
 

Retro

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I really wish the lewd sexual content would have had some sort of spoiler, trigger warning for those of us who are survivors. I'm bowing out of this thread.
That's a shame to quit such an important thread. If you mean the discussion of Trump's sexual preferences a few posts up, myself and @Astro What are simply discussing Trump's perversion and yet one more reason why one shouldn't vote for him. I know you'll agree that it's pretty gross and is what we're saying.

If you were thinking of anything else, would you please mind linking to the post here and I'll review it? If you'd rather do that in a private message then that's fine, too. Again, it's a shame to lose you from such an important thread.
 

Retro

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This article by Reublican Mick Mulvaney talks about media bias against Trump in this opinion piece. While there's actually some truth to it, he disingeniously fails to point out critical things like the Jan 6 insurrection that Trump fomented (which I saw unfold live on CNN) or the classified documents that Trump stole, both really serious crimes warranting jail time and that he was found guilty in the hush money case (all 34 counts of it) making him an actual, convicted felon, a criminal. That's not surprising really and the bias shown here is quite ironic in an article supposedly pointing out bias from the media.

tbh, it's not surprising that the media are super critical of Trump nowadays when the constant fact checking exposes his constant lies for what they are, incuding his constant assertion that the 2020 election was "stolen" from him. Haitian immigrants eating pet cats and dogs, anyone? Just how many times has this ridiculous, laughable, conspiracy theory been debunked and just how many times does Trump keep repeating it, regardless? That's Trump's fault, not the media's. If anything, they need to increase the pressure on him, not ease up.

Written by a Republican, I'm not surprised that this opinion piece is so distorted.

We didn’t need the “60 Minutes” story or a (second?) Vogue cover to convince us that the media are rooting heavily for Vice President Kamala Harris in the upcoming election. And before those involved start clutching their pearls and breathlessly reiterating the fiction that they are “independent journalists,” keep in mind that no one really believes that. Maybe they don’t even believe it.

And that’s fine. This is about politics and governance, not media biases.

If Harris wins, the media can congratulate themselves for having helped. There is nothing wrong with that. All sorts of people participate in the public square in all sorts of ways. Some people run for office, others support think tanks, and some go into journalism. Many of us are activists in some way.



@live627 @Geffers ppl, you'll probably like this article, so have at it. :)
 

Retro

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This 41 second video linked to in that article shows the moment that Trump claims to want to be a dictator for just one day after what he said has been allegedly widely misreported by the media.

Just how naiive does one have to be to believe this ridiculous claim? What dictator in history do you know ever gave up his power? Exactly, none, and it wouldn't be any different with him. Think, it's not physically possible to be a dictator for only one day to do the things Trump says there, to build the wall and drill for oil, anyway. Seriously, don't buy this lie.

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Retro

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Trump crossed a red line with voters by saying he's going to withhold money from first responders simply because the state wouldn't vote for him. Yeah, it's a gross, nasty thing to say, especially in a state that's been so hard hit by hurricanes. What a douchebag.

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Astro What

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The sad thing was, his staff had to pull up statistics showing how many Republican voters were in the area impacted before he could be moved from his pushing for no financial aid to that area of California that was struck by fires.
And then he has the temerity to claim that's what the current administration is doing right now, while Republican officials in those states are clearly stating otherwise.
I think the folks that support him are the same ones that watch those reality shows... just in it for the entertainment value alone.
 

Geffers

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This article by Reublican Mick Mulvaney talks about media bias against Trump in this opinion piece. While there's actually some truth to it, he disingeniously fails to point out critical things like the Jan 6 insurrection that Trump fomented (which I saw unfold live on CNN) or the classified documents that Trump stole, both really serious crimes warranting jail time and that he was found guilty in the hush money case (all 34 counts of it) making him an actual, convicted felon, a criminal. That's not surprising really and the bias shown here is quite ironic in an article supposedly pointing out bias from the media.

tbh, it's not surprising that the media are super critical of Trump nowadays when the constant fact checking exposes his constant lies for what they are, incuding his constant assertion that the 2020 election was "stolen" from him. Haitian immigrants eating pet cats and dogs, anyone? Just how many times has this ridiculous, laughable, conspiracy theory been debunked and just how many times does Trump keep repeating it, regardless? That's Trump's fault, not the media's. If anything, they need to increase the pressure on him, not ease up.

Written by a Republican, I'm not surprised that this opinion piece is so distorted.





@live627 @Geffers ppl, you'll probably like this article, so have at it. :)
The mention that is written by a Republican is supposed to give it credence, what about Ex Democratic Presidential Candidate Tulsi Gabbard supporting Trump, not to mention ex Democrat Robert Kennedy Jnr.

As for J6, why was much of the evidence and videos used during the enquiry destroyed, why did the Democrats initially want the details of the J6 enquiry suppressed for (I think it was) 70 years. Why did Twitter delete Trump's tweet to demonstrate peacefully and patriotically. Trump offered the National Guard to Pelosi, she refused but has subsequently admitted the disorder was her fault. Of course this is not being highlighted because the Press hate Trump - loved him before he was a politician, probably would have adored him had he stood as a Democrat.

As for the stolen election, on the night of the election the opinion was Trump was leading, certain swing states then suddenly decided to shut down for the night (unprecedented to the best of my knowledge) then, hey presto, next day Biden is leading. Windows were covered during the night, vans arrived, deliveries of 'items' took place. Al shown on video but discounted.

One of the main problems is, reported and quotes substantiating this disappear or are suppressed, as did the Hunter Biden laptop business, that could have been pivotal but, with FBI assistance was suppressed prior to election.

When the right demonstrate cities do not burn, cars don't get torched, business do not get looted, different ball game when the left don't like something, George Floyd, BLM, Antifa etc., as a result of this it is not surprising various judges and politicians were reluctant to pursue any allegations of election rigging, effectively allow the status quo to continueand try again in 4 years.

Geffers
 

Astro What

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Let's compare the number of Democrats (well known) supporting Trump compared to the number of Republicans (well known) that are supporting Harris.
I think you will find the numbers are a little lop-sided.... there are a LOT more Republicans supporting Harris than the few that claim to support Trump. In fact, there is a LARGE number of ex-Trump administration staff members that are supporting Harris instead of Trump. That in itself is very telling when you claim to only pick the "best for the job" but they end up saying you are the worst for it.
Gabbardand RFK Jr. both have plans/desires to server in a Trump administration. They know that their actions would never get them anywhere in a Democratic one as one is based upon policy positions and the other is based upon loyalty to an individual.

As for the J6 supposed deletion of videos?
Disproven solidly.
If you want to talk about video promises/releases, how about the fact that Johnson, after over a year, still has not released his promised 44,000 hours of video of the incident to the public? I could easily get a conspiracy going by saying it's because he realizes that he knows that buried in that video is proof of what the committee claims and it puts the Republican stance in a bad light. Bears as much weight as any other consiperacy.
Remember, the same report that alleges that the J6 committee deleted records states that they hired "Hollywood producers" to promote a political narrative while investigating the circumstances around Trump.
It seems that the reports released by those Republican led committees investigating this type of stuff have as much fact in them as their long running (and badly failed) attempt on the Biden impeachment joke because, by God, they impeached our almighty Trump and we have to do the same to their President.
Now, just to give you some more facts and not fantasy from information given by Bernie Thompson and backed up with documentation:
House Rule VII outlines the requirements for preserving House records at the end of each two-year term, and a footnote to Thompson’s response to Loudermilk outlines why Thompson says those written transcripts comply with that rule.

The committee was not obligated to archive all video recordings of interviews or depositions that were transcribed, he wrote. He cited guidance from the House clerk’s office that says the information contained in a document – and not necessarily that document’s format – make it a permanent record.

Because those interviews and depositions were transcribed by “nonpartisan, professional official reporters” and were reviewed for errors by both the witnesses and committee staff, those transcripts qualify as the official, permanent records and follow House rules for record-keeping, he wrote.
It's kind of like the Republicans trying to go after the interview tapes of Biden... not because the transcript was incorrect, but because they wanted to try to find some "gotcha" moments that had no bearing on what was being said but they could use as a diversionary tactic.

As to the vote tally returns, you need to learn how voting and vote tabulation works in the US before commenting on it. It is not abnormal that that you get a major swing over night. Walk in votes get counted before early votes. Typically Republicans vote on election day (the walk in votes). Democratic voters trend towards early voting (ergo the hue and cry by Trump and his sycophants to force limits on that method or to do away with it).
Just because the polls have closed does not mean that vote processing stops. They process the votes after poll closings and then those results are tabulated and added in the next business day. They do cease tabulation at a certain point to give the poll workers that have usually been there all day time to go get some rest. I guess your position is that they should remain slaving away until every vote is tabulated, no matter if that takes 12 hours or 1200 hours?
In fact, in some states, you are not even allowed to count the early election votes prior to the main day to prevent any early voting returns from impacting what the actual election day turnouts.
It was no different a process during Trump's so-called Stolen Election than it was when he was elected in 2016 or any other election.
As to the "all shown on video but discounted"... I think the word you meant to use was disproven.
I guess you also believe that 2000 Mules was a factual documentary?

As for the Hunter Biden laptop being piviotal? Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda. The thing is, even now the Republicans who have had access to it have not been able to show ANY verifiable link to Joe Biden himself. All they wish they could have done is used it to try to mar Joe because of his son's abysmal behavior, which was readily displayed for all to see by Marjorie Taylor Green showing nude images of Hunter under the influence of drugs in Congress, which even many Republicans stated was unprofessional and used only to sensationalize her doing it.

Let's not even get into some of his more recent statements, like using the military against "the enemy within". And from clarification statements he's made referring to certain persons by name, it is readily apparent he means Democrats and anyone who disagrees with him.
And the real irony... is watching his MAGA politician party faithful try to spin what he says so that it sounds like something else while they totally ignore the names he called out when it is pointed out to them.

It's rather fun watching how far down the Trump fantasy rabbit hole folks go. But it is also frustrating because one always hopes that people pay more attention to factually backed information than sensationalized statements that lack any form of veracity.
They don't realize the grift he's running on them just to enrich himself. Remember, he whines/crys about China and how we need to control the products from them, yet is Trump endorsed America Bibles cost $3 each and were made in China and are sold for basically 20 times what they cost to produce.
 
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Retro

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Trump offered the National Guard to Pelosi, she refused but has subsequently admitted the disorder was her fault.
Oh really? Pelosi said that the riot was her own fault? Are you serious?! 🤣 I stress each time that I saw it and Trump's speech leading up to it, yet you keep on trying to justify and deflect blame from Trump. No, he's guilty of fomenting it that day and also in the months leading up to it as per a documentary I saw about it by a neutral party. Open your eyes! :)

One of the main problems is, reported and quotes substantiating this disappear or are suppressed, as did the Hunter Biden laptop business, that could have been pivotal but, with FBI assistance was suppressed prior to election.
Yeah, funny how all the supposed "evidence" supporting wild conspiracy theories making big claims has always mysteriously evaporated just when it's needed most, innit? ;) Almost like there never was any evidence in the first place and it's all made up...

I could spend lots of time analysing and debunking the rest of your post, but I know it wouldn't help any, so this will do.
 

Geffers

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Let's compare the number of Democrats (well known) supporting Trump compared to the number of Republicans (well known) that are supporting Harris.
I think you will find the numbers are a little lop-sided.... there are a LOT more Republicans supporting Harris than the few that claim to support Trump. In fact, there is a LARGE number of ex-Trump administration staff members that are supporting Harris instead of Trump. That in itself is very telling when you claim to only pick the "best for the job" but they end up saying you are the worst for it.
Gabbardand RFK Jr. both have plans/desires to server in a Trump administration. They know that their actions would never get them anywhere in a Democratic one as one is based upon policy positions and the other is based upon loyalty to an individual.

As for the J6 supposed deletion of videos?
Disproven solidly.
If you want to talk about video promises/releases, how about the fact that Johnson, after over a year, still has not released his promised 44,000 hours of video of the incident to the public? I could easily get a conspiracy going by saying it's because he realizes that he knows that buried in that video is proof of what the committee claims and it puts the Republican stance in a bad light. Bears as much weight as any other consiperacy.
Remember, the same report that alleges that the J6 committee deleted records states that they hired "Hollywood producers" to promote a political narrative while investigating the circumstances around Trump.
It seems that the reports released by those Republican led committees investigating this type of stuff have as much fact in them as their long running (and badly failed) attempt on the Biden impeachment joke because, by God, they impeached our almighty Trump and we have to do the same to their President.
Now, just to give you some more facts and not fantasy from information given by Bernie Thompson and backed up with documentation:

It's kind of like the Republicans trying to go after the interview tapes of Biden... not because the transcript was incorrect, but because they wanted to try to find some "gotcha" moments that had no bearing on what was being said but they could use as a diversionary tactic.

As to the vote tally returns, you need to learn how voting and vote tabulation works in the US before commenting on it. It is not abnormal that that you get a major swing over night. Walk in votes get counted before early votes. Typically Republicans vote on election day (the walk in votes). Democratic voters trend towards early voting (ergo the hue and cry by Trump and his sycophants to force limits on that method or to do away with it).
Just because the polls have closed does not mean that vote processing stops. They process the votes after poll closings and then those results are tabulated and added in the next business day. They do cease tabulation at a certain point to give the poll workers that have usually been there all day time to go get some rest. I guess your position is that they should remain slaving away until every vote is tabulated, no matter if that takes 12 hours or 1200 hours?
In fact, in some states, you are not even allowed to count the early election votes prior to the main day to prevent any early voting returns from impacting what the actual election day turnouts.
It was no different a process during Trump's so-called Stolen Election than it was when he was elected in 2016 or any other election.
As to the "all shown on video but discounted"... I think the word you meant to use was disproven.
I guess you also believe that 2000 Mules was a factual documentary?

As for the Hunter Biden laptop being piviotal? Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda. The thing is, even now the Republicans who have had access to it have not been able to show ANY verifiable link to Joe Biden himself. All they wish they could have done is used it to try to mar Joe because of his son's abysmal behavior, which was readily displayed for all to see by Marjorie Taylor Green showing nude images of Hunter under the influence of drugs in Congress, which even many Republicans stated was unprofessional and used only to sensationalize her doing it.

Let's not even get into some of his more recent statements, like using the military against "the enemy within". And from clarification statements he's made referring to certain persons by name, it is readily apparent he means Democrats and anyone who disagrees with him.
And the real irony... is watching his MAGA politician party faithful try to spin what he says so that it sounds like something else while they totally ignore the names he called out when it is pointed out to them.

It's rather fun watching how far down the Trump fantasy rabbit hole folks go. But it is also frustrating because one always hopes that people pay more attention to factually backed information than sensationalized statements that lack any form of veracity.
They don't realize the grift he's running on them just to enrich himself. Remember, he whines/crys about China and how we need to control the products from them, yet is Trump endorsed America Bibles cost $3 each and were made in China and are sold for basically 20 times what they cost to produce.
Democrats are running on hate Trump, not anything they have achieved over the last 3+ years. Abortion is their only potential plus point., otherwise it is more of world conflicts, more gender reassignment, more trans in women's sports, more trans in women's changing rooms, border still an issue, more green policies causing black outs and higher heating costs. Electric technology is not good enough yet to meet their electric vehicle targets.

The outcome alternative will always be hypothetical, if Trump wins there may well be riots, cities may burn, cars overturned, shops looted, which is the norm, if Harris wins I am sure there will be demos but doubt cities will burn, we shall see. Many like to suggest J6 was unprecedented violence, well, unarmed female Republican Ashli Babbitt was shot dead, that officer would have been on a murder charge in the UK shooting a live round into a crowd, no police were killed however much the Democrats like to suggest were.

Soon be over then we can all go back to discussing nerdy issues on nerdzone.

Geffers
 

Retro

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Retro is too deep into politics to allow THAT to happen! 🤣
Awww, don't say that! 😧 You can talk about anything you like and you can see the various other sciencey threads I've started recently. If you'd like to comment on them, you'd be very welcome. :)
 

Astro What

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Democrats are running on hate Trump
Since Ronald Regan ran (and was the first President I voted for)... I have never been a Democrat.
Sadly, today the only choice that keeps Democracy safe IS a Democrat. Trump has killed the GOP and turned it into a cult of personality. It will take years and years before it will come back to what it was. What the Democrats are running on is the absolute threat to our Democracy that Trump presents. Hell, he tells people that regularly, but they just consider it more BS that he spews and that he doesn't "really mean it". You can see that regularly by those MAGA sycophants currently in office trying to explain his statements away by using a form of that "he doesn't mean what he says".
Why do you think there has been a defection of long term Republicans from the party? Why do you thin that in 2020 down-ticket Republicans won office and Trump couldn't carry the load to get that top one. No, it wasn't because of cheating, because if a party was going to go that extent to cheat to get their candidate in office, they'd also make sure that they got enough in office in the House and the Senate to be able to get their policy pushed through. The Republicans actually gained seats in the house in 2020, but it wasn't enough to keep the Democrats from keeping a majority. Then in 2022 the Republicans GAINED the majority in the House. If the Democrats had such a successful cheating machine in place that after years and years of accusation, investigation and claims and not being able to show proof of any o f it, why would they not have used it to maintain control of the House and then all three seats, the Presidency, the Senate and the House so they could get their socialist/communist/fascist/alien agendas passed?

Abortion is their only potential plus point., otherwise it is more of world conflicts, more gender reassignment, more trans in women's sports, more trans in women's changing rooms, border still an issue, more green policies causing black outs and higher heating costs. Electric technology is not good enough yet to meet their electric vehicle targets.
Oh lordy.... this is rich.
What business of YOURS is it if someone wants to whack their outie off and replace it with an innie? If you believe Trumps claims of the schools snatching the children out and forcing (or coercing) them into gender reassignment surgeries you have totally lost touch with reality.
I don't agree with transgenders being able to participate in sports of the other sex EVEN if they have gone through medical transition, as generally if it is a male transitioning to a female, they have an immediate genetic advantage in most cases due to the bone structure and musculature of a male. I also believe that there should be bathrooms set aside for transgender male & female for their use unless they have gone through surgical transition. Once surgical transition has been done, explain to me what the difference of a transitioned female going into a females bathroom and committing a sexual crime and a heterosexual female doing it? Other than a preconceived notion that because they used to be the opposite sex it caused the attack? That's junk "science" and a fear of someone different. Odds are if we ever do make contact with an alien species, it will be those self-same folks that whine and spread fear about this that will be showing the same xenophobia that they do against human "aliens" and people in the LGBTQ lifestyle.

As for more "blackouts"... Jesus H. Christ, I live in Texas and I can promise you that the reason that we have blackouts and brownouts is not because of "green energy", but because of the lack of the ability of our Republican government to resolve infrastructure issues that they have known about in the decades they have been in power.
In Texas, around 31% of our energy is produced from renewable resources. In fact, recently those renewable resources were some of the ONLY things that kept us from having more black/brown outs during our heat wave, which according to our Republican government our infrastructure was designed for and only had issues with extremely cold weather that we don't normally get.

As for electric vehicle technology, it's solid enough that if there was infrastructure in place for widespread charging, it would work decently, and I'd go so far to say as pretty well. The problem is here in Texas the actual line infrastructure. The agencies that oversee the departments involved are controlled by Republicans and they appoint Republicans. And we all know that Republicans want to "drill baby, drill". Now, let's ignore the fact that currently the US is producing more fossil fuels than it ever has, exceeding even the what most think are the top countries because that is what they hear.
According to EIA.gov (the agency in the US that keeps track of energy production stats) in 2022 were:
  • United States14.7%
  • Saudi Arabia13.2%
  • Russia12.7%
  • Canada5.6%
  • Iraq5.5%
And 2023 and 2024 the US maintained the lead and in fact generated even MORE.
In fact, during the period Trump was in office, the US generated LESS than Russia or Saudi Arabia. It was not until 2018 that the US production overtook the other countries. And no, that was not due to Trump. The neck of the woods in Texas that I live in is well known for oil production. In fact, you may want to look up the history of Lubbock Texas. And check out the reserves for the Permian Basin.

And living in Texas (which is definitely a border state), I can safely say that in my area we don't have a major issue with migrant crime. In fact, generally the ones you see in the paper getting arrested for stuff are those "good old U.S. citizens".
During the 10-year span from 2013 to 2022, the homicide conviction rate in Texas was 2.2 per 100,000 illegal immigrants, 1.2 per 100,000 legal immigrants, and 3.0 per 100,000 native-born Americans. And yes, a large number of those illegal immigrant charges were from gang related activity. But notice, our good old US citizens have a higher rate and the immigrants that are here legally are the lowest of all.
In Texas, we had over 5.1 million foreign born persons in Texas.
From a recent (09/24) report
An NIJ-funded study examining data from the Texas Department of Public Safety estimated the rate at which undocumented immigrants are arrested for committing crimes. The study found that undocumented immigrants are arrested at less than half the rate of native-born U.S. citizens for violent and drug crimes and a quarter the rate of native-born citizens for property crimes.
Even better (and this is Texas specific) is this chart drawn directly from Texas data (remember, Texas is ran by the GOP) of overall crime rate by group.

Screen Shot 2024-10-18 at 4.31.35 AM.png

Amazing, those "nasty illegal shipped in gang members from other countries" have the LOWEST arrest rate of the 3 classes.
And this carries through with the violent crime rate (drawn on the same CCH -computerized criminal history system that Texas runs) of violent crime.

Screen Shot 2024-10-18 at 4.34.33 AM.png

For the period of 2012 to 2018, the total drug crime arrest rate was 337.2 per 100,000 for U.S.-born citizens and 135 per 100,000 for undocumented immigrants. So, so much for that theory that all the illegals are dealing in drugs in great numbers. Another Trump fantasy shot all to hell by facts, something that nobody in the Trump world seems to be able to deal with.
Now, as to the veracity of the number of illegals version legals and such and how it was determined, our criminal justice system is a little different than many other states. We track more data. From the study that some of the above data was taken from:
As the study’s authors write, “To our knowledge, Texas is the only state that requires the determination and documentation of immigration status as part of its standard criminal justice records practice. …Simply put, no other data source in the United States could accomplish this task with the same degree of breadth, rigor, and detail.
If you have the intestinal fortitude to face facts, you may like this article

Many like to suggest J6 was unprecedented violence, well, unarmed female Republican Ashli Babbitt was shot dead, that officer would have been on a murder charge in the UK shooting a live round into a crowd, no police were killed however much the Democrats like to suggest were.
It WAS a frigging unprecedented attack on the seat of our government. To give you a little history lesson (again, which is factually based and not opinions) on how rarely that has occurred:
As for "shooting a round into the crowd", guess what. That round hit where it was aimed, at a target crawling through an opening and surrounded by material that would have pretty much stopped a miss from passing through. In fact, I have to give kudos to that officer for his cool hand in being able to hit his target under that stress. Many officers honestly probably could not. They would spray & pray. He acquired the target, discharged the required number of rounds to stop the action and then ceased target engagement.
Tell me, what is your level of expertise on firearms, their use in the field of law enforcement, the process of target acquisition and the determination of shoot/don't shoot? How experienced are you with the ballistic penetration ability of various rounds against assorted material that may be encountered in law enforcement situations?
How many times have YOU been placed in that situation? I personally have numerous times, and out of all of them only had to discharge my firearm in one of them. And guess what, there were bystanders around the person I shot then also. In fact, the actions of one of them resulted in ricochet off his watch as his arm reached into my target area, resulting in the person having time to discharge his firearm and kill his common-law wife.
EVERY time an officer pulls that trigger there is a chance of injury to others. I've never known of any method of transporting a person that deadly force is authorized to be used against to a large (multi square mile) unoccupied area so that the shooting can happen without any danger to surrounding citizens.
For egregious lack of use of common sense, charges are filed and officers ARE prosecuted. Guess what, Babbitts shooting was investigated and it was determined that it (like mine) was within policy.
And speaking of Babbitt, she should have been WELL aware of what intrusion into a secure government facility could involve as a response by those charged with protecting it. Remember, she was an ex Air Force security officer, and they do get trained in when deadly force can be used in protection of things even as mundane as, not to mention more sensitive government property/persons.
Now, as to Babbitt herself, in 2015 she rammed another vehicle three times with an SUV and was pounding on the window of that SUV, challenging the driver to a fight because that lady had Babbitts husband she was cheating on him with her boyfriend. She also had a history of erratic behavior and multiple arrests. She also had a lengthy history of making violent threats. So it's not like she's the Virgin Mary here. She was shown (and confirmed afterwards by the history of her past behavior) to be acting in a manner that the officer found to endanger from violence the people he was there to protect. Exactly WHAT reasonable person would continue forcibly climbing through a broken window into the seat of Congress while a gun was being pointed at them and they were being told to stop, especially as I mentioned, having been trained in the use of deadly force for protection in the pursuit of her duties as a government security officer?

And no, no officers were directly killed.... but 140 officers reported injury (some resulting in serious injury) from the assaults of the MAGA cult members. I know from first hand experience that number was probably higher as many simply didn't report any injuries. There have been many a time I and other officers have been injured in pursuit of our duties and we didn't report it, mainly because of the additional paperwork that was involved and the fact it took you away from your duties frequently while you had to go in for medical assessment. You had at least one officer (Fanone) that had voted for Trump that came out against Trump's actions afterwards. There were several others in the same boat.
Then you had people like Christopher Worrell, 52, of Florida, who was found guilty in May of six felony counts, including assaulting officers with a deadly weapon, as well as one misdemeanor count.
Seems those weren't peaceful tourists there for a daily jaunt now doesn't it? Never mind that it was CLEARLY shown on TV that was going on and that Trump was sitting watching it as it happened (as has been documented by numerous of his staff).
 
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Retro

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Now, as to Babbitt herself, in 2015 she rammed another vehicle three times with an SUV and was pounding on the window of that SUV, challenging the driver to a fight because that lady had Babbitts husband she was cheating on him with her boyfriend. She also had a history of erratic behavior and multiple arrests. She also had a lengthy history of making violent threats. So it's not like she's the Virgin Mary here. She was shown (and confirmed afterwards by the history of her past behavior) to be acting in a manner that the officer found to endanger from violence the people he was there to protect. Exactly WHAT reasonable person would continue forcibly climbing through a broken window into the seat of Congress while a gun was being pointed at them and they were being told to stop, especially as I mentioned, having been trained in the use of deadly force for protection in the pursuit of her duties as a government security officer?
Funny how so many reports fail to mention Babbitt's record in the wake of that shooting and the fact she'd had multiple warnings to back off, as you described, but refused. Nah, it's all the Dem's fault, innit? :rolleyes:

Interesting and detailed debunks for the rest of your post, too.
 

Astro What

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Interesting and detailed debunks for the rest of your post, too.
The sad thing is that most of the ones believing that kind of stuff won't read the information.
One reason, because it's so easy to make the claim as it' makes for a great 10 second sound bite. The rebutting it takes detailed information and most of them can't be bothered to invest any more than the 10-15 seconds a sound bite takes. I would go into the reasoning of why, but that also has been discussed at length and does no good. Trying to convince a Trump/MAGA faithful that their position is incorrect even by showing them facts is like any other process of deprogramming a cult member. It is why I have said it's going to take years and years to get the GOP back to where it was (and needs to be).
 

Astro What

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An interesting article about the "Trump" spectacle involving democracy.... and why it's not the first time it has been seen.
Seems like the UK suffered from similar and it was only stopped by WW1.

 

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I'm not aware of a similar situation with the UK, but it wouldn't surprise me.

We've got the likes of charlatan Nigel Farage and the brexit that he was instrumental in conning the country into, so yeah, totally possible.
 

Astro What

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I'm not aware of a similar situation with the UK, but it wouldn't surprise me.

We've got the likes of charlatan Nigel Farage and the brexit that he was instrumental in conning the country into, so yeah, totally possible.
The MSN link should take you to an article from Salon.
Fairly interesting article about the Home Rule Crisis over 100 years ago in the UK and the similarities with the current MAGA/Trump stance.
 

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Oh yeah, because MSN doesn't unfurl, or even show a proper article link, I missed it.

Reading some of that is a history lesson for me as I had no idea that it had happened. Big shame it's happening again then and to the biggest democratic superpower on the planet, isn't it? Another Trump term is likely to fundamentally and perhaps permanently change America to something far worse, as we know. Oh and he'll have evaded justice yet again for his multiple crimes that the DOJ has belatedly tried going after him for. Then he'll eventually die of old age, having never been brought to justice. That really gets me. I wish it wasn't happening in our lifetimes, I tell you. :confused:
 
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